I have disassembled my lower tailgate for rust removal and I see these two holes in the lower area, just behind the hinges. both sides. when you lower the tailgate you can see them. They make no sense to me and I would like to know if they are factory og or somebody drilled them?! otherwise will weld them up. can anybody tell me if their wagon has them or not ?
My best guess is they are drain holes.
that's what I was thinking, but I don't have a wagon to look.
That's what I thought first but they are in a totally awkward position. no use as drain holes. maybe something to keep the panels aligned in production or maybe someone drilled them ? I'd appreciate anybody with a wagon taking a look if they are present.
I want to keep small factory details, only doing mild custom work.
The large holes look like they were cut to house fairly large speakers. Those holes (big ones) were the same shape as the center large hole (stamped). My guess those little holes are for speaker wires to exit the gate inconspicuously.
Isn't there someone that has a 57 wagon that they could just take a look and see for sure if those holes are factory or not? I would hate to see Guenter weld them up if they are original to the wagons. Thanks Jay.
The gate had three large stamped out holes exactly the same size and shape as the center hole. Look at the lower left corner of the first photo and you can see the edge of the stamping that was originally there. The edge is in the corner just before the cut out area. The second thing that I noticed is the small hole next to the big curved cut out which would lead one to believe that was for a screw to hold a speaker in place.
Thanks Ford Blue blood
I'm certain that Guenter in Austria is going to see this. Jay
Yes the gate has been cut for speakers by some '******' ! I am currently repairing all of that, since it is affecting the strength of the gate structure from hinges to the struts. I can't understand why anybody would cut such ugly holes anywhere. they even cut through the bracing in the hinge area, removing 1 of only 4 spot welds. FYI the 3 holes are not exactly the same size, aprox 3/4" difference. but I have enough left of the opening corners so I can restore them properly.
I have already welded up the holes that were from the speaker screws. there are a lot of other holes punched from factory, to hold the inner upholstery panel, and the 4 stainless moldings. I will leave all those intact.
will post pics later.
those little holes I was talking about first, they look as if stamped. there is little to no burr on the inside, which would occur when drilled later.
It is just a small non important detail but I want to get it right. Although I will be custumizing the car somewhat (sorry, Jay), shaving the tailgate lock off, but I want to make it look like in the 50s/60s. which means only small areas are reworked/customized and the little details should be as factory correct as possible.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2015-02-06 09:57
It is just a small non important detail but I want to get it right. Although I will be custumizing the car somewhat (sorry, Jay), shaving the tailgate lock off, but I want to make it look like in the 50s/60s. which means only small areas are reworked/customized and the little details should be as factory correct as possible.
Shaving the tailgate lock off??? WHAAAAT? Someone please pass me my medicine.
Jim ...did you see what he just wrote? We need to talk to that young man. HAHA
Actually it's your car so I'll respect what you think is good for it.
Now what did I do with my instructions for shaving the door handles on my 57?
My Ranchero gate does not have those holes you were asking about. I believe they used the same stampings for both wagons and Rancheros. I would have taken a picture of the inside but it is buried at the moment......
I just went out to the garage and checked my Ranchero tailgate. It most certainly does have those holes in it. They are approximately 3/8 inch, and mine both have nasty burrs on the inside, like they were drilled. I'll check my spare Ranchero tailgate tomorrow as well, its not as accessible at 10 PM. Cold up in the loft and I think there are some boogie men up there.
I never noticed the holes before, as I haven't removed the plates in front of them as you have done.
here are some pictures of the bottom of my tail gate.hope this helps
Many thx to everybody checking their Ranchero gates, but they are different from the wagon.first they don't have the lock assemblies for the upper tailgate obviously and judging from CanadianRanchero's pics it has some stuff attached in the inside from the bottom. you can see the 4 screws. none of them are present in the wgn gate, nor the holes for them.
the small holes in mine are 3/8 and they have just slight burrs in the inside, as if they were punched from the factory, they are evenly spaced also. I doubt somebody cutting for speakers with an axe would be careful enough to do so.
There are more pics of the gate building progress in my wagon topic on 'membersrides''.
Yes Jay, confessing I will be pulling the lock/handle. I have always been a fan of nosing and decking, it makes the car look much smoother, especially since the 57 wagan has such a nice crown on the gate, just beautiful shape. my gate has all been knocked in, punched for a puller and whatnot. the edges are rusted, so if I can save the skin, I'll be lucky anyways. it will be easy now to cut and weld up all that mess and then run the skin through the Englisch wheel.I think I can reshape it properly. All of that wouldn't be possible with the handle recess in place. It is only a half good skin anyways and I can reskin it with an good og handle skin later anyways.
99% going to keep the door handles and locks though. looks better and the handles are beautifully shaped too.
Günter I did bolt the tail gate on my ranch 57 wagon before I let it go. Not sure if this a picture of the top or bottom with all of the stuff around it. If this does not help I could go and look at it where it is, and take pictures with my new camera. The problem is that the place where it is, is buried under just as much snow as I have because as you it's not far from my house. Hopefully someone with a Ranch Wagon or Del Rio will chime in. Jay
G'morning Jay, thx for the pics, but it is the upper edge of the tailgate showing unfortunately. I have some time left for this decision, since I have many other things to work on and I will have the tailgate parts sandblasted only after the snow is gone, probably March, to avoid moisture before primer. I can still weld up the holes then, if we find out they shouldn't be there. I am sure some of our wagon owners will be able to come up with the answer.
That old wgn of yours sure was cool, but it had the same rain gutter rust as 50% of them have (mine too), what a terrible panel to replace properly :005:
Just dawned on me....a torsion bar is clamped in place on the bottom of the gate?
Quote from: canadian_ranchero on 2015-02-07 01:05
here are some pictures of the bottom of my tail gate.hope this helps
these pictures are from my county sedan station wagon.
oops I missed that, thanx. And now I am totally puzzled. yours has 4 screws that mine doesn't have at all, and I have those two holes in totally different postition than your screws. yours doesn't have holes in the areas mine does. Is it Canadian buildt ?
here's an actual pic from the outside
my wagon was built in canada
ok, my old Courier Delivery also was Canadian built and it was different in several areas than US 57s. it seems as if those twin screws in the middle of your gate could be for a lower lock as used in the Sedan Delivery rear gate.
my ranchero has the holes on both sides,but my ranchwagon gate only has it on drivers side with a rubber plug in it.
Thanx for the info, that is crazy. how many hole patterns do we have ? I am starting to think, that with the huge number of wagons produced in dozens of plants, they must have had several suppliers for stamped panels. maybe they had different designs ?
My car is Dearborn built.
I never thought this to be such widespread topic !
Just checked my Ranchero & it has none.
I have both a 2 door wagon and a 4 door wagon. The 2 door has no small holes like those and the 4 door wagon has 2 holes. One just to the outside of each hinge.
(http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/Mavaholic/DSCN2223.jpg)
Although I said my Ranchero hadn't got any, I'm wrong! I welded them up a while ago (and forgot!). The reason I didn't leave them is that I thought a previous owner had done them as they weren't evenly spaced.
Thanx guys for the information. I have found pics of at least two other wagon gates that have the holes. I have no idea what they are for, maybe a production detail, specific to production date or factory. my wagon is August 57 Dearborn built. Anyways I will keep the holes, I think this is enough proof that they came that way from the factory.
Gunther, those holes were probably there for die alignment, and as long as they weren't in a critical area wouldn't really matter where they were placed. And who knows how many different shops provided those panels.
All these type of variances are what drive restorers and judges crazy. And with our cars there are probably few things that can be 100% certain that every plant put them together the same way.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Quote from: Zapato on 2015-04-15 17:43
holes were probably there for die alignment
Zap, that is very well possible, it makes sense !! I know all the concours/Judging trouble with the mid 1930s Fords also, with so many different details and varying from plant to plant. I am not looking for these details because of show points (since I am going to mildly customize the car anyways). I am just interested in the little details and learning how they built it back then. I might be a bit fussy about that but I want to look the car as if it was customized when brandnew or just a few yrs old, in the 1957- ca. 1963 style. Back then nobody would have welded up such stuff or cleaned the firewall, because they were daily drivers getting a shave and paint.
True, a lot of 50s cars got nothing much more than a shave and often a set of ''midnight auto parts'' hubcaps. And then there were cars like My Blue Heaven that went straight from the Ford dealer to the body shop for a 4 inch section. I had heard mention of this car for years and a good friend grew up just up the street from where it was cut and he would ride his bike over almost daily to see what was going on. Saw it after a complete restoration few [maybe 10+] years back at the Unfinished Nats. According to my friend that shop did a steady daily business cutting coils and mounting lowering blocks. So both extremes were the norm of the day. MBH was gold chainer material in its day and the others were more the norm of one mod at a time as the cash became available.
Do a Google image search My Blue Heaven/1959 Ford for a great example of a late 50s full Kustom from the Pacific Northwest.
Zap- :unitedstates:
that 59 Ford is really cool, especially knowing the story. I am not going wild on the wagon, just mild.
here's something for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVvwhIxpowk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVvwhIxpowk)
well that youtube link just got me off on a two hour tangent of nestalgia. I scrolled down the side and ran across a video titled "a brother remembers". I know many of you guys are my age, and probably grew up watching Ozzie and Harriet for years and years. As Ricky grew up and became an American teenage idol....he was for me...I can remember high school the day after the show talking about what Rick sang on the show. It was either that or a discusion of American Bandstand, which we all rushed home to watch. Anyway, this is an excellent video on the Nelson Family, even back to Ozzie and Harriet's beginnings. The video is produced by David, and centered around Rick understandably, and I'm sure watching it will bring alot of fond memories back, as well as alot of stuff you never knew, particularly Rick's kids and what they're doing now. The second video is a short one of his twins giving a concert in Austin, Tx. in memory of their dad.I was blessed to see Rick in concert at the Creshendo in Anaheim just a few months before his death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2XWIf_oS_w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFaY5gWD1ms