I'm at the point in my Ranchero build that I've been looking for a engine and transmission, and I've found what I THINK I want, but need advise from the more knowledgeable late model Ford folks, here on the Forum.
I have a friend that has a truck and van salvage yard. He has a '94 Bronco with a 5.8 Roller Motor that I think I want to use in my Ranchero. I want to couple that engine to a AODE transmission. Now, here is where I need advise.
My friend that owns this yard is very knowledgeable about OEM parts ,what trucks have what parts and what will interchange to what truck. What he readily admits to not knowing is, will this 5.8 Liter motor, in this '94 Bronco, with four wheel drive, couple up to a AODE transmission, from a completely different vehicle, and assuming it does, what or which computer do I use to make it shift and function in conjunction with the 5.8 liter motor? Did I make that clear?
I'm hoping that someone else has been down this road before me and can tell me what will work and what will not work.
Thanks
John
are you going with fuel injection on the engine?i would use the 4r70w transmission.i have been told the computer from a 94-95 2wd with the 4r70w trans will work.some had mass air,so try to find that one.if you are going with a carb,you can buy a aftermarket trans controler
Quote from: canadian_ranchero on 2016-03-09 18:08
are you going with fuel injection on the engine?i would use the 4r70w transmission.i have been told the computer from a 94-95 2wd with the 4r70w trans will work.some had mass air,so try to find that one.if you are going with a carb,you can buy a aftermarket trans controler
Yes, Fuel Injection. Is the 4r70w Transmission a big case or a small case transmission?
And do you know if the bolt pattern on a AODE behind a 4.6 liter is the same as the bolt pattern on a 5.8 liter?
Thanks
John
Windsor motor does not interchange with 4.6 modular. Bronco Windsor will have rear sump oil pan. Pan, sump and dipstick will need to be changed. Take the whole Bronco to get every wire, switch, sensor, as well as ECM. Give it back to him when you are done!
With the late model F.I. engines and OD trans you need to literally remove EVERY part of the drivetrain, electronics and
fuel systems and transplant them into the older chassis. Major work even if everything comes from the same vehicle.
An FE and C-6 or Y-Block and C-4 are as much gain without all the pain.....
Your car, your choice.
Goodluck,
Ron.
Truck fi intake wont clear hood either...
Quote from: SkylinerRon on 2016-03-09 22:41
With the late model F.I. engines and OD trans you need to literally remove EVERY part of the drivetrain, electronics and
fuel systems and transplant them into the older chassis. Major work even if everything comes from the same vehicle.
An FE and C-6 or Y-Block and C-4 are as much gain without all the pain.....
Your car, your choice.
Goodluck,
Ron.
Ron, as always I appreciate all the replies. I readily admit that my knowledge of Ford engines and transmissions, and what will work with what, is close to ZERO. Thus I lay my lack of knowledge out in front of the Forum and look for help, advise and guidance.
It's been suggested to me , to forget the AODE and use an AOD ( small case )transmission. Do you know if there are any issues with putting the '94 Bronco Fuel Injected 5.8 and an AOD together? And yes , I realize that I'll need ALL of the driveline, electronics etc.. The compatibility issue raised it's ugly head as I was telling the owner of the salvage yard what all I wanted/needed along with the basic engine. When I said "computer", he stopped and questioned the compatibility of this engine and its computer and an AODE transmission. The owner is a friend and I can get/have anything I need in the way of parts. So getting "everything" is not an issue.
Knowing what will work with what is where I come up short. And after I distill all of this information down, I might ditch this entire idea and go in another direction as you have suggested.But I'm not at that point as of yet.
Thanks
John
Quote from: gasman826 on 2016-03-09 20:02
Windsor motor does not interchange with 4.6 modular. Bronco Windsor will have rear sump oil pan. Pan, sump and dipstick will need to be changed. Take the whole Bronco to get every wire, switch, sensor, as well as ECM. Give it back to him when you are done!
Thanks for the input. I was hoping you would weigh in on this, so I could tap into your knowledge, along with the vast knowledge of all the Forum members. I was aware of the Pan, sump etc. Not a deal breaker yet. Assuming this goes forward, I was told by others, as well as by you to get "everything". I've thought about taking the entire Bronco, and stripping out what I need, but bringing that Bronco home just won't happen. H.O.A. , neighbors etc..
I guess I should ask my question this way..........What small case AOD Ford transmission will bolt up with this '94 Bronco 5.8 engine/computer, assuming I get ALL of the necessary parts, wiring etc..?
Thanks
John
Quote from: JPotter57 on 2016-03-09 23:22
Truck fi intake wont clear hood either...
Jim, thanks for the reply. I'm aware that the intake is an issue. There is a intake that will work, but I can't tell you the details from memory, I'd have to look it up in the notes I've made about this car.
Thanks
John
You can use a lightning intake, ir any number of edelbrock, bbk, etc fir 351w swaps in fox body Mustangs. Lightning will always be the coolest looking though. If you can find a lower intake, an Explorer upper will bolt on, be a lot cheaper. That lower intake is hard to find though and usually sells for 400+. Ive seen a couple aftermarket intakes on ebay for cheap though so shop around...
Quote from: KYBlueOval on 2016-03-09 19:24
Yes, Fuel Injection. Is the 4r70w Transmission a big case or a small case transmission?
And do you know if the bolt pattern on a AODE behind a 4.6 liter is the same as the bolt pattern on a 5.8 liter?
Thanks
John
the 4r70w is a wide ratio aode same case,the 5 liter,5.8,3.8 and 4.2 are the same bolt pattern.a mustang 5 liter would be a easier swap,intake would fit,trans and computer would work. assuming they are from the same car.a crown vic would also work
John,
I just don't have the expertise on later model/fi stuff to risk giving advise on them.
My best bud is an 5.0/fi guy so I depend on him for them.
I'm doing a 78 Zephyr, 302/C-4 for a Touring/trip car so I have been thinking about FI and OD for it but,
I have a steep learning curve for sure.
You might try FourEyedForums.com it's a very good source for this type of info.
As you probably know I'm a big Y-Block and FE fan and for the limited miles we drive our 57's these engines are
just fine. And look damn kool too. I just don't need 30mpg in a cruiser, my ZX-2 daily driver will do it easily in A/C comfort.
Goodluck with whatever you do,
Ron.
Thank Ron..........I share that steep learning curve on what I propose to do engine and transmission wise. I've received some very good information here and on the Ford Barn. I won't pull the trigger on the 5.8 and AOD or AODE until I fully understand what the end result should look like and how many pictures of dead presidents I'll have to part with to make it happen.
I'll certainly try the Forum you have listed.
John
I saved every eight cylinder, carbureted engine and transmission that I had opportunity. I buy roller cars (no engine/transmission) with dreams of saving everyone of them. I am traditional in the idea of Ford-in-Ford and era correct drivetrains. But, FEs, YBlocks, Windsors, even 460s, C6s, and C4s and getting few and far between and almost all need complete rebuilds. Trips through the machine shop and new parts carry high price tags. I regularly see running 4.6s for $500 and less. The cost of buying a wrecked, running 1990s or early 2000 Lincoln, Crown, or Grand is far less than the cost of a restored FE short block. I have and have friends who flip entry level '50s and '60s cars and pickups. We can put a reliable, late model drivetrain into an entry-level, driver for an affordable price. The last few years at the Labor Day Auburn Auction, comparable vehicles with late model drivetrain swaps sell better. My #3 project is a '41 Ford Business Coupe with a 4.6 Cobra/5 speed drivetrain. Not saying this is right for everyone, just seeing a trend.
Gary is correct about the trend. The cost of a banged up late model is less then overhauling a 390! The fuel injection systems make the new engines barely broke in at 100K. The aftermarket guys make putting a "EFI" motor in almost bolt in. For those older cars that have the chance of sitting for a couple of months between runs there is no way you can beat the "turn the key on and start it" that EFI provides!
My Ranchero is getting the 351C/AOD for one reason, it's been in the shop for close to 15 years while I was taking care of life.
:002:
I think someone could buy a decent running FE/C-6 complete for under a grand and be driving
over a weekend.
Ron.
Quote from: SkylinerRon on 2016-03-12 23:48
I think someone could buy a decent running FE/C-6 complete for under a grand and be driving
over a weekend.
Ron.
I am thinking about getting a 351W and an AOD for mine as well, but I would jump on a FE/C6 in a heartbeat if I could find one for under a grand. I personally think those days are long gone. And over a weekend? I had the impression there were motor mounts and transmission mount/crossmember issues that needed to be reworked. And I wouldn't think the exhaust wouldn't just bolt right up either. Is that wrong? Is a FE/C6 really a direct bolt in?
Installing a FE with a c6 is a bolt in, you use the factory 57 mounts and a easy modification to the trans cross member . For exhaust you use the factory log manifold or headers , also there is no reason you can't have EFI on your FE .
Quote from: dgasman on 2016-03-13 14:23
Installing a FE with a c6 is a bolt in, you use the factory 57 mounts and a easy modification to the trans cross member . For exhaust you use the factory log manifold or headers , also there is no reason you can't have EFI on your FE .
Really! That's pretty cool! So my 312 exhaust would line up and bolt up to a 390 factory exhaust manifold? What about the driveshaft? Does it have to be shortened? Maybe a yoke change?
That must be a pretty common swap then right? And the EFI part shouldn't be a problem with the various modern bolt on systems available. That doesn't address an overdrive though... Is there a AOD that bolts up to an FE?
I have an FE with a toploader in my Custom now, the 312 exhaust won't bolt up but with the right parts it is a bolt in. Ford introduced the FE in the 1958 cars as an option over the Y blocks. since the '57s and '58 are essentially the same cars, there were factory parts to address everything. In the 60's I went to the dealer and bought every part that was different and bolted a '62 Mercury 390 into my Fairlane 500 in 1 day. I used the Fairlane 3-speed.
OK, time for some info.
58 FE headpipes hook an FE to 57 mufflers.
All 54-58 V-8 motor mounts are the same (FE's are reversed).
FE bellhousings bolt up to Y-Block trans' No need to cut driveshaft.
57 Radiator outlets work w/FE hoses
Gas pedal linkage is the same
If you have a good running 292/312 just bolt on a Mummert top end and some cam and
kick some windsor and sbc butt!
Stock 58 FE's came w/2.69 rears, is that enough Overdrive for ya? (Torque rules the street).
Sometimes you don't have to reinvent the wheel, just learn about them.
Goodluck,
Ron.
i picked up the donor mark 8 for my wagon for a $1000,and drove the mark home
My only (not really my only one (I have lots of issues)) issue is with my ability /desire to keep an old car working properly. If I owned a 90's anything, I wouldn't even work on it myself. Computer managed automobiles are frustrating to a mechanical guy used to figuring out what is wrong by taking things them apart and looking. I know that newer cars are more efficient in fuel consumption and in horsepower production, perhaps drivability, but that doesn't appeal to me as much as the simplicity of older cars. I would be afraid that if I transplanted a modern drive train/computer management system into my '57, it would wind up in a field... that is contrary to the very reason why I love these cars. My daily driver has a recurring problem with a wiring issue to the front wheel speed sensor...rodent related. The ABS, the ESP, the cruise control, and the convertible top do not work as a result...REALLY?. Nothing that $1500 won't fix. It is a 2006.
X2 what Lynn said. The extent of my electronics is a Pertronix but I carry points and condenser with me, no interest in being part of the call a tow truck crowd :003:
An old friend was hard against any EFI of any kind. His position was that if he broke down on the road there would be no way to "fix" it. I had to ask him if he carried a spare coil, points, and rotor - never mind the tools to do the repairs. My point to him was made when I stopped to help him while he was broke down on the interstate 35 miles from home. Seams his HEI distributor had gone out. Given EFI has been around since the mid 80s and old school stuff is hard to come by the new systems are supported to a much greater extent.
Modern EFI systems have a limp home mode that will get you to the house or a repair shop. Seldom is the computer the cause of the failure. Nearly every repair shop has a reader to tell you what has failed, Autozone does it for free. If I have the opportunity to get a complete "parts" car (and I do have one, a 105K mile Explorer with 302/EAOD) the stuff from it will go in the next project. The Explorer stuff will go in the 60 Ranchwagon.
So it goes without saying I'm an EFI guy. I must admit my extensive electronics back ground helps a tremendous amount to understanding their operation and reading the many boards out there that deal with EFI.
OK! :003: I had a 1976 260Z with carburetors and a '78 280Z with EFI...no comparison period. The EFI was better in everyway. I would really love to put an aftermarket EFI setup on my FE....so there...
I guess it is all about the myriad of sensors, miles of wiring, complexity, long term parts availability, etc. of the older factory stuff. In my mind all the factory systems were necessary to meet emission requirements and that was the primary design parameter. Performance has had a resurgence in the past decade or so and engineers take advantage of complex designs to optimize all engine functions...while I can appreciate that, I still love old horsepower. No substitute for cubic inches! :002:
All the electronics stuff is fine for some, I'm to old to learn new tricks :003:
What I'm finding out with my system, is I may have been better off with 1 1996 vintage. My 1995 still used the OBD I system, and trying to find shops that can work on it is very difficult. I just talked to a local performance shop that specializes in the late model performance cars, and they don't have the equiptment to work on OBD I.
1996 was pre PATS, but first year of OBDII, at least on the Mark VIII's.
That $1000 Lincoln sounds like a deal.
How much is it to replace all the timing chains and guides?
Ron.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2016-03-15 10:09
...while I can appreciate that, I still love old horsepower. No substitute for cubic inches!
I'm very fond of "new horsepower", with EFI my Shelby makes 502 rear wheel horsepower. The car gets 19 - 20 MPG at 70 - 75 MPH, will idle in traffic jams all day with the A/C on, and starts the first try every time. It ran around Talledega effortlessly at 125, made a fast run to the top of Pikes Peak without missing a beat.....just don't get much better then that for a street car!
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2016-03-15 10:09
OK! :003: I had a 1976 260Z with carburetors and a '78 280Z with EFI...no comparison period. The EFI was better in everyway. I would really love to put an aftermarket EFI setup on my FE....so there...
I guess it is all about the myriad of sensors, miles of wiring, complexity, long term parts availability, etc. of the older factory stuff. In my mind all the factory systems were necessary to meet emission requirements and that was the primary design parameter. Performance has had a resurgence in the past decade or so and engineers take advantage of complex designs to optimize all engine functions...while I can appreciate that, I still love old horsepower. No substitute for cubic inches! :002:
Al..google FITECH they have introduced a system for every man so simply to install that it can be done by someone who has never even seen EFI. You can get massive HP out of the system and it will bolt on to ant square bore manifold. we have put on four of these and sold three or four more. no problems or complaints. they are about half the cost of a Fast system and work way better. we just pulled a new fast off of a 472 Cad and replaced it with one of these.
FITECH - so you have had good experiences with these units? That is wonderful news! I was looking at these, they look like they are around $1000 and another $250 for the fuel pump kit (summit prices). Is there anything else needed like exhaust sensor?
I am thinking a 351 roller crate motor, topped with one of these units and backed by an AOD and I can have my 57 running with 400 plus reliable horsepower with decent fuel mileage. Cool!
Checked out the Fitech...WOW! Too good to be true?
Quote from: SkylinerRon on 2016-03-16 00:50
That $1000 Lincoln sounds like a deal.
How much is it to replace all the timing chains and guides?
Ron.
i spent about $200 in parts,did the install myself
I have the Fitech on my ranchero and it runs really great . A very easy install and setup . I bought it because I am tired of rebuilding the carb because of our crappy gas in Cali and the heat soak on a restart after running . This system starts right up after a heat soak. You have to love efi just for that. I think it's one of the best buys for a complete efi system .