Jim Nolan and 57 Ford

[JimNolan]

James,
   Lets make sure I understand your post.
1. Which engine and bell housing were you using. I've got the FE engine. I'd like to keep my same bell housing.
2. Did you say that the crossmember would have been OK with the Tremec if stock exhaust had been used.
3. I can't understand about the clutch linkage. Is there a reason I can't use stock clutch setup I've already got.
Jim

[JimNolan]

James,
     Done it. It's over. Figured out what I wanted to put in my 57. I called Wedan Street and Performance in Columbus, In. and talked to a Brad Wedan. He explained everything to me about the swap I was going to do. This is a list of the things I'll keep.
1. Stock FE bellhousing
2. Stock Z bar, clutch fork and Rod.
3. Transmission crossmember
This is a list of the things I'll be changing.
1. Tremec TKO 600 Transmission .64 OD with FE Ford input shaft (extra)
2. 1350 output yoke for drive shaft.
3. Universal ureathane transmission mount.
4. 11 inch Performance clutch and pressure Plate
5. Special Throwout bearing for stock fork
6. Comes with center shift 16.75" position or 19.5" position( you just reverse the top plate to get one or the other.)
7 If I want the 2" offset shifter that would be 500 and some dollars extra. I'll buy a new front carpet for less.
   The thing that helped sway me was the fact I can still run my 3.70 posi-trac. NOW, if I could find traction.
   He said he'd probly have it shipped tomarrow. Here I go again. Barely got the brake swap done. I'm glutten for punishment.
O Yes, for those inquiring minds like me. $3445 counting tax. I live here so I have to pay tax.
Thanks for your advice. Jim

[57AGIN]

Jim:

I've followed your transmission discussion with great interest and it seems to me that your decision is a very wise one.  The Tremec is a very strong unit and with the .64 OD you will still enjoy the ability to cruise at low RPM. 

As to your traction concern, I'm off to the California Speedway Fun Ford Weekend later this week and I'll be giving my new set-up a good test.  Last year all I had was the 3.70 gears and a posi.  The tires were street BF Goodrich TA Radials and my times sucked (98 mph and a  14.85 et).  My 351 Windor doesn't put out the torque or probably the horse power of your FE, but the other components of my drive train are pretty similar to yours, so some comparisons can be made.  For this year I have added a set of good traction bars (CalTraks) and a pair of M/T E.T. Street Radials (P235/60R15's).  These are almost the largest street legal drag tires that can fit into my stock rear wheel well.  They are mounted on Weld Pro-Star 15" x 8" rims with a 5 1/2" back space.  I'll let you know if this set-up works.

Bob
57AGIN

[JimNolan]

Bob,
   Thanks for the info, let me know how you do. At Gulfport when I ran that pontiac fierro with the V8 engine I had 205R15 tires. I launched real slow and let it dig in. Thats when I missed 2nd gear and tried four times before I could get it in 2nd. The Fierro had passed me but when I got it in 2nd I started catching him again. He went through in 15.5 sec and I went through in 16 sec, so I determined from that I could possibly get under 15 sec with my car if I knew how to drive it and could shift gears.
   I'm interested in how well you do this time. If need be, I can drop my shocks for the weekend to be able to install bigger tires. I'm retired so I don't need to drive it to work on Monday morning. Good Luck at the Fun Ford Weekend.
   Answer me a question before you take off. Do you have any other trouble besides dropping the shocks to be able to use the 15 X 8 X 5 1/2 backspace wheels.
Jim

[57AGIN]

Jim:

Not really, but I also had to drop the rear shackles (supporting the axle with a floor jack) and then lower the jack until the tire clears the outer fender well and the brake drum.  The BF Goodrich T/A Radials are about 10.5" at their widest and don't clear.  Once I let the air out of the tires and got them out without dropping the rear shackles, too.  I don't have any clearance issues when the tires are up and mounted in the wheel well (about an inch of clearance on both the spring side and outer fender well).  The drag tires I purchased are slightly narrower than the BB Goodriches and one inch less in diameter.  I anticipate hitting the traps at about 100 mph.  Last year I came off the line at 3500 RPM, but given the e.t. I must have been spinning quite a while.  This year I should be launching instead.  At least that's the theory.

By the way, I have a friend with a Fairlane 500 Club Victoria and he has tire clearance problems with both BF Goodrich 255x60R15's and 235x60R15's with a similar back space on the rims.  I'm pretty sure the Custom's and probably Ranchero's don't have the same problem.  Weird isn't it, and he only has problems on the right side.

Bob
57AGIN

[JimNolan]

Bob,
   That's me to a tee. My right side is closer. I've measured everthing on the rear end and it's perfectly aligned. It's like they decided to make the body panels closer in on the right side. Glad you mentioned that. I thought I was going nuts or my car had had the whole side dented in about 3/4 inch. I'll go with the biggest tires I can get under it. I going to look into the cost of shortening the axles and housings to get rid of that problem. Tubbing is completely out of the question.
   The SLR (starting line ratio) I have now is 9.2 and the tires I have on it now go up in smoke. The new transmission will give me a SLR of 10.6, so you can guess what's going to happen if I don't learn how to leave the line correctly for my setup. Jim

[57AGIN]

Jim:

Based on my limited experience from when I was 21-23 racing my 65 Mustang I'd say the higher your starting line ratio the better your launch will be.  This is why the real hot shot racers use 4.57 - 5.38 rear end gears.  I believe the limiting factor is what your final drive ratio ends up at the finish line (i.e. what RPM will you be at the end of the quarter).  I'm not sure what my T-10's 1st gear ratio is, but with 3.70's in the rear I know I'll only be at about 5000 RPM at the finish line

My 65 Mustang had a wide ratio T-10 (2.78 1st gear), the rear gears were 4.57's.  This gave me a starting line ratio of 12.7.  I also had a set of lift bars, which allowed the tires to bite real well, but the tires used back in the day were very limiting (Casler cheater slicks and only about 6.5" wide).  With this combination I would rev the engine at the starting line to 3500 - 4000 RPM, rapidly release the clutch (not quite popping the clutch).  The car would literally leap off the starting line, generally giving me about a 2 - 3 car length head start (if we both left at the same time, remember this was long before reaction times were listed on the time slip).  I would generally win, if the car I was up against had a similarly built engine.  I was running AHRA G-stock optional F-6 (engines 280 - 300 cubic inches, single 4bbl carb, and hydraulic lifters).  The best my Mustang ran was 13.6 sec. @ 101 mph in the quarter, most of the time it went in the low 14's right at 98 - 99 mph.  Pretty good back then for a street driven, mild hot rod.  However if the other guy had a cam that pulled more mid range or top end, I'd get beat (my cam was a mild grind Sig Erson 280 duration , .480" lift).  I would go through the traps at 6000 RPM, which was my goal.  So that combo worked for me then and I'm thinking it will work on the heavier 57's, too.  I'd really listen to what Hoosier Hurricane and Shopratwoody have to say, as these guys have raced their 57's for many, many years and really know these cars & racing.

Good luck & have fun.

Bob
57AGIN

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Bob:

Like you, I chose my rear gear based on expected trap speed and rpm at that speed.  I started running in NHRA stock eliminator with my F code '57.  I started with 4.57 gears with my automatic trans, used them exclusively until last year.  As I moved on to IHRA stock and then to bracket racing, the engine made more and more power and more rpm, but the tire sizes got bigger to a 10.5x29.5 Firestone slick, so rpm in the traps remained fairly constant.  Then year before last, I got it up to 118 mph in the traps, bumping the 6600 chip in the MSD.  I didn't want to run it that hard, so to bring the rpm down I switched to a 4.33 gear.

This will show what the wrong gear ratio for your combination can do to maximum performance.  Changing to the 4.33 brought down the rpm in the traps, which also slowed the blower down, which reduced horsepower, which slowed the car even more.  I lost about .4 seconds and 5 mph in the quarter.  The 60 ft times stayed the same, so the loss in et was not at the starting line, but at the end of the run.  I'm a lot more comfortable with the 6000 top end rpm, so do not intend to go back to the 4.57s.

John

[57AGIN]

Jim:

Well I really don't have a clue on how well all my suspension and tire modifications worked out.  When I got to the strip and was getting ready to get the 57 to the technical inspection and class assignment, I found I had a major coolant leak.  It was due to a couple of stripped hose clamps inside the stainless flex hose, it took a while to get that taken care of, when we discovered a smaller secondary leak coming from the thermostat housing gasket.  We had to be careful not to over torque the ARP bolts trying to seal this leak, but got it taken care of, too.  By the time we went through tech inspection and got into line for our first runs it was pretty late in the morning and we also wanted to participate in the car show.  Long story short, I only got one run in on Sat.  (no big deal as we still had all day Sunday, right?)  My only run on Saturday was a bust, I think I had too much traction, even bringing the engine up to 3500 RPM at the line, it bogged at the start.  My reaction time could be measured easily on a watch .533 seconds.  After getting the car off the line, I did my usual granny shift into 2nd (no power shift), then I waited to long to make the shift into 3rd (the engine started missing at 5500 which cost some more time and probably speed). My run ended at 15.35 seconds and 92.9 MPH.  I did better last year with street tires and no traction bars.  Bummer!!!  Oh well, there was always tomorrow.  Well, tomorrow never came, the Santa Ana winds (Southern California's answer to hurricanes came up at midnight Sat. wind speeds of 50 -80 mph, one gust measured at 108 mph).  The Sunday race program and car show was cancelled.  So I guess I'll have to stew about this for another year before I figure out what's going on with my 57.  Did I have a good time?  You bet!!!

Bob
57AGIN

[JimNolan]

Bob,
  Sorry to hear about the bad weather last weekend. As long as you had FUN, that's all that matters anyway. I can't wait to Columbus, OH next year. I haven't got a Y-block but I can park with them anyway.
   Speaking of traction, I called Wedan Street this morning to see when my transmission was suppose to be here. I enquired about the Warranty it had and if I should buy the extended warranty. Well the transmission is suppose to be here today and as far as the warranty goes he said I really didn't need the extended warranty, he'd take care of my problems as long as I was HONEST with him about how the transmission got tore up. He then elaborated. Seems one of his customers in a Mustang sheared off the rivits of the clutch pads.  Another customer spun the splines out of the clutch disc and destroyed the input shaft. Another customer twisted the driveshaft off and destroyed the output spline and seal. He said each and every one of these customers claimed they were just cruising down the highway when it happened. He inferred that for a street machine you need to be able to overpower your tires to keep from breaking things. Makes sense I guess.
    Ron(shopwoodyrat) told me he had taken 3/4" off each side of his axles. I checked my 53" axle housing and I can take 1" off each side and still have plenty of clearance for the backing plate etc. I guess I'll do that later, then I can run the Drag Radials.
   Thanks for letting me know about your weekend. I'd been hoping you'd see the rewards for the effort you'd put into your suspension.
Jim

[JPotter57]

Jim, I used a 351 W and Mustang type cable clutch.  I could have used the stock setup, but for normal driving, the cable clutch is really better, less pedal effort, etc.  The bellcrank assembly by its nature, causes the higher pedal effort.  If you could get a long enough lever on the bellcrank(z-bar), the pedal effort would be lower, but packaging comes into play.  The diapragm clutch doesnt have the holding power of the Long style, but, again, for every day driving, you cant beat it.  The stock crossmember would have worked, but it would have needed some trimming, as the Tremec has a hump behind the trans mount(overdrive set lives here).  No big deal, really.  Pat Fleischman has been running this setup for years in his blown stroked Y-Block powered Custom.  He drives this thing on Power Tour and beats the hell out of it.  Really a bulletproof setup.  Anyway,  I believe you have really hit upon the best setup.  You can keep your 4.11 gears, andstill get some great gas mileage.  I loved mine, but at the time, I had the dragstrip bug pretty bad, so foolishly traded the Tremec for a killer C4 and 4800 stall convertor.  Wasnt worth a damn on the street, but that heavy sedan went 11.30s on 10 inch tires(worn out M/Ts) and pump gas, through the mufflers.  Blew the Chevy peoples minds down here in Mississippi.  I am in the process of trying to get another Custom sedan, and will be doing it a bit different than the last one.  Will be a 5 speed, probably will be fuel injected, mod motor etc.  Not sure yet, I will see what happens if I can get the car.  Keep yer fingers crossed boys, I'm coming home.....

[JimNolan]

James,
   I'm going to start a new thread on transmission swaps. We're beating this one to death. Jump over there in a little while. Jim

[57AGIN]

James:

We'll all be looking forward to your return home.  I'm sure you have some pretty good Fairlane stories to cover your recent experiences.  Best wishes for finding a suitable 57.

Bob
57AGIN