Jim Nolan and 57 Ford

[JPotter57]

Check out this clipping from todays newspaper(Gulfport's Sun Herald). . .It's Jim hisself.  Very nice `57 Fairlane Jim, and again, it was great to meet you.  Hope you enjoyed this years Crusin' the Coast.  See you next year...James P

[JimNolan]

Thanks James P,
      Yes, I had a great time. I never saw so many cars in all my life and 75% of them were 57 chevys. Well, it seemed like it. But, I found out quickly that people were interested in seeing a 57 Ford for a change. People were great down there. Made you feel at home. Seven days isn't enough to see everything. Like I said before, met James and his family, he was waiting on me at one of the cruise-ins. Glad he didn't meet me at the dragstrip, I'd have been embarassed after the show I put on. I'm going again, in fact I'm going to try and move down there next year.
     Now for the real question. Has anyone installed a TKO Tremec in a 57 ford. Has anyone HEARD of someone doing it. There's a place in Columbus, In that deals with installation of Tremec's and I'm waiting word from them but I need someone who hasn't got anything to gain to enlighten me on the installation.
     The news reporter that took my picture ended up talking to me for about a half hour. Like I said, people were really friendly.
Jim

[Frankenstein57]

Kind of depends on what engine, and bellhousing you want to use. I hear of guys using a mummerts adapter for alot of applications, Mark

[JimNolan]

Mark,
   After figuring out the RPM of the Toploader(close and wide ratios) and the RPM that the TREMEC 500 and 600 would give me, Ive decided to keep the T-85 overdrive and get it fixed. I contacted Moses Ludel in Nevada about the transmission and he's going to blueprint it for me. He also claims to know the problem I'm having and how to alliviate it for good. Apparently it's going to cost me about the same to get this T-85 fixed as what a TREMEC would cost. I'm probley doing the wrong thing but the thought of changing rear ends or building crossmembers or raising transmission tunnels is scaring me. I've got a car that can be scary loose on takeoff and get's 21 mpg on the highway. Moses claims that when I rebuilt the transmission I didn't do the finesse things that make it reliable. He claims to know which parts of the transmission need altering to make it dependable for what I'm doing with it. With a name like Moses, how could you doubt him. His estimate not including parts was 1600-1800 with the cap being 2300. I've got to be really happy with my T-85 or crazy as hell to pay out that kind of money repairing a 50 year old transmission.
Jim

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Jim:

I don't want to discredit Moses, but I'm afraid you will never be able to shift the T85 fast.  Years ago Hurst had a feature article in Hot Rod discussing the T85.  When shifting out of 1st, that heavy, spinning low gear slider is being moved to the rear of the car.  Acceleration also helps move it rearward.  This sounds good so far.  The problem is that the gear MUST stop moving rearward precisely in the neutral position or the interlock will not let the trans  go into second.  The interlock consists of a spring loaded ball dropping into a notch in the rocker arm.  So, Hurst's answer to the problem was their "Synchro Lock" floor shift.  I saw a display at the Indy Nationals with a trans on a stand, indicator lights to show what gear it was in, and of course the Hurst shifter.  They allowed you to shift it from first to second with a baseball bat.  Worked every time.  But, the transmission wasn't spinning nor accelerating.  I put a Syncro Lock in my '56 Bird, and it helped, but it still wouldn't "speed shift".  If you're still running the column shift, a good floor shifter will help, but won't overcome the problem completely.  I preached all this to Pegleg, so he switched to a top loader which has a syncronized 1st gear.  Only the syncronizer ring needs to move, so less inertia is involved.  However, he wants to run in pure stock, so a floor shifter isn't allowed.  He still has some issues with his flimsy column shift linkage.  But it is better than the T85 for shifting.

John

[JimNolan]

John,
    I've spoke to you before on this. I also mentioned your information to Moses when I talked to him. He said you were right. But he also said that if I didn't power shift it, it would work just fine for me. Here's my delima, if I go with a Tremec I'll have to change drive shafts, crossmember and possibly the transmission tunnel. Also with a Tremec I'd have to go to a higher differential gear to be able to get more than 18 ft distance in 1st gear when cruising. It would be like driving a dump truck in the lower gears. So with a Tremec I'd change rear end gears, crossmember, drive shaft and transmission tunnel.(at least a new hole for the Tremec shifter).
   Now for the Toploader, with my 3.7 rear gear I'd be doing 3310 rpm at 70 mph. If I change rear gears to say 3.10, I'd still be doing 2773 rpm at 70 mph and I'd give up any chance of having a decent 1/4 mile car. So, if I use a toploader I've dedicated my car to the 1/4 mile or I dedicate it to a highway car that shifts fast.
   If I add a GearVenders overdrive to it I can get what I want by spending 3K on thier setup plus the 18 hundred for a new toploader and then changing driveshafts as well.
   I've looked at every possible way out of keeping this T-85 but there is nothing ( at least finacially) that can touch the T-85 for highway and occasional drag strip use. At 70 mph I'm turning 2250 rpm and getting 20 mpg while doing it. If you've got an answer thats fesible PLEASE let me know. I've not sent anything out yet and I can still change my mind.
  I looked Moses Ludel up on the internet and couldn't believe his creditials. He's the next thing to a rocket scientest when it comes to working on transmissions. He's wrote God knows how many books and a consultant to the major car makers when it comes to off road vehicles and performance drive systems.
  You on the other hand have spent the years in the ditches and know what is actually going on. You've been there, done that and have a world of experience to draw from. If you've got an anwer on how to go to achieve what I'm trying to do, let me know. I'll be more than happy to do it.
  I'm letting this go to the forum instead of contacting you personally so someone else my benifit from the exchange.
Jim

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Jim:

While reading your latest post, I suddenly remembered that Gary Burnette adapted an R11 OD off a T85 to a toploader non OD 4 speed.  Is that what Gearvendors do?  Anyway, Gary now runs a T6 in his Bird, if he still has the 4 speed it may be available.  I'm sure mount and driveshaft rework would be necessary to install it, but no tunnel work.

I agree that the T85 with OD makes an excellent strip/street combo, but 1-2 speedshifts are not part of the program.  Have you looked at yours to see why it didn't want to come out of 3rd?  I once had that problem, and the syncronizer ring overtraveled far enough to let the three struts pop out on one end.  Had to take the side cover off and push the struts back down to get the ring back in place so I could drive home.  I put an external stop on the outside of the shift cover to keep that from happening again.

John

[JimNolan]

John,
   I told Moses about the problem with it not coming out of third until I pushed in the overdrive lockout handle. Don't remember him addressing it though. He told me the T-85 Syncronizers would be coming out and he would replace them with T10 modified syncronizers.
   I think the struts you're talking about are the pawls that are spring loaded under the syncronizer slider ( the best I can remember ) He said he thought one of them might have broke on me. Thats why he wouldn't replace them with T85 parts.
  You ain't going to believe this but he takes pictures of the transmission during disassembly and assembly. When he's through he sends a CD for you to watch your transmission being blueprinted.
   If you got Gary Burnettes phone number I'd like to call and talk to him. I'm still downloading information on gear ratios, starting line ratios, travel distance in 1st gear, rpms at highway speeds. When I get through with this project I'll be so full of information I may explode.
   What experience have you had with a toploader impersonator.
Jim

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Jim:

Do you look at the Y Blocks Forever website?  Gary is on there, Speedpro56.  You can send him a PM there.  If not, let me know, I think I have his number on a profile page in Y Block Magazine.

John

[JimNolan]

John,
   Forget it. I'm worn down. I've decided to go with a Wide ratio Toploader and change my rear gears to accomidate the 1-1 final ratio. I've invested a lot of money into this T-85 Transmission all ready. I've got about 1K in the new gears I put in a year ago. Now I'm wanting to throw another 1.8K at it and I'd be hoping for the best. I don't want to hack up my car for a fancy 5 speed either. The cars too nice for that.
   David Knee offers Toploaders for 2K that would probley outlast the time I've got left anyway. And, they are apparently rebuilt well.
   NOW. What rear gear should I have for this 4000 lb money eater I have. I'll be cruising more than I will be drag racing so keep that in mind. I've got an SLR ( starting line ratio ) of 9.2 now. 9-11 being the best. I already have too much car for the size tires I can put under the car so a lower SLR should help. At 70 mph a 2.73 rear gear would give me 2450 rpm in 4th gear. A 3.00 gear would give me 2684 rpm. The 2.73 gear would have an SLR of 7.5 and a 3.00 gear would give me a SLR of 8.3. Any rear gear lower than that and I might as well buy a trailor to haul it where I go.
   Can I look respectable on the track with rear gears that high. The wide ratio transmission has the 2.78 1st gear.
Thanks for letting me use you as a punching bag. I appreciate your help and advice. Jim

[KidKourier]

Jim,  Been reading your post on your tranny situation,just picked up a copy of SUPER ROD magazine (BUCKAROO PUBLISHING),on pages 64-67 There's an article on a Kool and beautiful 1957 Ford Courier Built by Doug Klann-Owner/builder,Slim's Body Works and Hot Rod Shop-Freeland,Michigan,(989-695-2313). He's running a 350 Horsepowered Y-block with a Tremec T-5 5-speed with a Hayes clutch and Weber aluminum flywheel, 4.10 gears with posi. and 20"x 10" rear rims (whoa baby) so with that size rim it deffinately plays into the final ratio (tires,rear gear,trans ratio) . So give him a call and ask about the install and how he likes the results or anything he would change now or give you a heads up on tranny install !SKIP.

[JimNolan]

Skip,
   Found out more about the Toploader from David Kee. He now builds a 2.9 first gear. That'll give me a tad less launch and about the same cruise rpm I've got now. I could certainly use a tad less launch. Richmond gear builds a Super T-10 with a 3.25 first gear but the advertisement says it's only for GM engines. The further I get into investigating my options the more I'm finding other people want the same thing I'm trying to accomplish. With gas prices the way they are now, we've got to have descent gas mileage for our ground pounders. Thanks for the information on Doug Klann. If I can't get what I'm looking for with the Toploader or T-10 I'll be needing to talk to people like him. Thank, Jim
   

[JimNolan]

Skip,
   Update. Called Doug Klann. He said the back of the transmission tunnel was raised and a new crossmember had to be installed. Good try though. Appreciate any help. Thanks, Jim

[JPotter57]

Jim, I had a Tremec TKO in my `57.  The main reason I took it out is because I had also put in the late model Mustang cable clutch, and there wasnt enough room to get good adjustment out of it(cowl tank in the way).  If I had used a hydraulic clutch or even the mechanical bellcrank it would have been better.  You can pick up a decent Tremec for about 1200-1500 or so, use the adapter from Mustangs Unlimited, bolt it right up to the Ford bellhousing and go to town.  I did not have to chop the floor up at all.  I could have used the stock crossmember, but my headers ran directly into it, so I made a trick double hump crossmember for the big dual exhaust (3 inch pipes).  It's really the best swap for the car if you drive it.  If it were my car, I would put a 3.70 gear in it, with the Tremec.  Most of the Tremecs have a 3.35 or 2.95 first gear, so you could get away with a 3.25 gear.  The OD is .63, so you could run a 4.11 and still work out to a 2.59 final drive in 5th gear.  The only cutting I did on the floor was for the floor shifter to come through, didnt have to raise it or anything else.  If you do move down here Jim, get in touch with me, and I will help you all I can with it.  I put mine in with the engine, so it was a snap, no problem at all, did not touch anywhere, so no vibrations or that sort of thing.  Think about it before you make your mind up, the 5 speed is really the best way to go.  By the way, the Tremec is based on the old T&C toploader, so it is plenty stout, and is a whole lot lighter weight than the old cast iron case toploaders.  I've had both, so I can vouch for them.

[JimNolan]

James,
   I've just about made up my mind to go with a Toploader. I need to talk to David Kee first though. He has gears that he puts in these Toploaders that make them a lot better for cruising and draging. I'm still open to anything that would work. I'll keep your advice in mind.
  As to Ms, yep, going to do it. Got my plane up for sale now. Sell what I got up here and go drag racing in Ms. My son in Columbia is looking for a car now to fix up with me.
Jim