302 oil pan clearance issues?

[robhaerr]

Guys...

Have any of you who installed a 302 have any issues with clearance on the front sump oil pan. I seem to have a stock size pan, but need a couple more inches for the front sump.

Any thoughts/experience/ideas? (I am thinking that my engine installer wants to position the motor farther back than you others have since he is needing to fabricate engine mounts after removing the Chevy 350)

Thanks!
Rob

[57AGIN]

Robb:

I don't think that a 351W is a whole lot different than a 302.  I just put a Canton 351W 14 gage pan front sump 9 qt. pan and had no issues.  The oil drain plug is on the rear of the pan facing the cross member ant there is still plenty of clearance to remove the drain plug and not interference.  see photos

Bob
57 AGIN

[robhaerr]

Thanks for the photos, Bob!

My installer (Bobby Walden) wants to mount the motor farther back since the distributor is in the front, placing the weight back and looking better mounted 2-3 inches back. I like the idea, we will see what happens.

Since my wagon had a Chevy 350 by a former owner, the cross-member was all cut-up and the original engine mount plates were gone. Bobby has repaired the cross-member back to original form and will fabricate some new mounts.

Curious and really looking forward to seeing what Bobby comes up with. He knows what he's doing.

Walden Speed Shop is a great hot rod shop to get work done or a car built...
http://www.waldenspeedshop.com

Rob

[Partsman]

It would appear 57 AGIN used Butchs Rod Shop mounts and the pan clears the crossmember.  I used the same mounts for my 351 W and if the engine were backe anothe inch or 2 it would hit the firewall.  I don't see how you could move back much more without firewall problems.  I can't see how another inch or so will affect the handling in any way.  A later dual sup 302 pan may give you a little more set back.  You will have to change pump pickup if you do this.

[57AGIN]

Rob:

Another thing to consider is whether you are using a standard or automatic transmission.  If, standard and utilizing the Z-bar (equalizer bar) and moving the motor back toward the firewall, you will not have the same geometry.  Rick and I had to move my 351 forward an inch to square things up properly.  If using a hydraulic clutch setup or an automatic, you probably won't be having a problem.

Bob
57 AGIN

[gasman826]

'57 Fords were considered a little tail heavy to begin with and yours being a wagon...even more so.  Moving for weight advantage on a street car has little to no value performance wise.  It would be handy to have more room between the water pump and radiator.  The big issue would be modifying the firewall.  No big deal on the engine side but a whole can of worms on the interior side.  Wipers, vents, the entire HVAC system, and radio may have to be relocated or modified.  There are other issues like future service work.  After boxing in the firewall, try getting a valve cover off.  If you use a double sump pan (rear sump), the engine will have to go up and rear word quite a bit.  This would give limited hood clearance for carb and air cleaner.  The steering should be changed to front steer.  I have a 460 in mine.  It is tight but fits.  The 302/351W engines are more compact and shorter than the 460.  The extra issues, work, and money just don't seem worth it. 

But if you already have it done....COOL!

[robhaerr]

Thanks for the input, guys...

This install won't be anything especially custom...just looking for "bitchen". No firewall modification here...no budget!

The front sump pan will stay, as well.

Looks like Bobby will fabricate something to be able to use 69-70 Mustang engine mounts...
http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/images/Engine/D0ZZ-6038-B_img2.jpg

Rob

[57AGIN]

Rob:

If you aren't otherwise engaged on Sunday come on out to Knott's Fabulous Fords Forever Car Show.  You might see some interesting things for consideration in your upgrades.  If you do make it Tomorrow Rick and I will have a map of the setup and I'll post the location of the 49 to 59 Fords so you won't get lost in the 1,100 Mustangs. LOL

Bob
57 AGIN

[robhaerr]

Thanks Bob...

My "other hobby" has me otherwise engaged. I am the drummer in this band you may see playing around So Calif ocassionally...

Here we cruise the pink Caddy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqOww0ep50M

Rob
http://www.ravelers.com

[512Fairlane]

I just dropped my '89 302 in using 75 Ford F100 mounts.  I used a Cal custom finned aluminum front sump pan.  I have to make some 1/4" spacers under the mounts but the pan clears everything like it was made for it.  The motor sits about as close to the firewall as I would want it with the fuel injected manifold. The best part was the mounts were only $10.00 each.  Here are some pics.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/512fairlane/sets/72157629303741382/  
Good luck.

[robhaerr]

Thanks Fairlane512!

I did find your photos online and showed Bobby...I have scoured the internet! Nice to see you post here.

Bobby is looking at mounting a bit higher than he originally showed me, too.

It's all good! I dropped by there today, the rack and pinion unit bolted up perfectly.

Cheers...
Rob

[Frankenstein57]

I've always read where the302-351 swap fit pretty easy in the 57's. You have some options on motor mounts, I used fox body mustang mounts,they just needed a bit of slotting on the crossmember pad. The engine dropped right in, they must be moving it around.  Mark

[57AGIN]

Rob:

I see and understand the conflicting schedules.  Looks like you have a great gig going.  I'll be looking toward coming to see your group playing in the future.  Knowing Rick as I do, he'll probably be coming along too.  I love the descriptions yor have been doing on your build and your wagon is a great looking ride.  Sooner or later we'll all get together at a show and have a great time.  Sorry to have hijacked the engine thread.  Keep up the great information sharing.

Bob
57 AGIN

[robhaerr]

Thanks Bob...

I see forums like this as a continuous conversation...no hijacking in my eyes!

I will look forward to meeting you and seeing your rolling artwork up close soon.

Rob