Springs - again

[LAUDY57]

So now I can also confirm that Aero springs with dropped spindles are too low. When I put the Aero springs in they compressed to 11 1/4 and my frame was i/8 off the bumpstop. I got the KYB equivalent of the Monroe 5821 or Gabriel 82026 but as they are for Vegas etc the bottom pin is too short and the body is a lot smaller than stock, I think the Monte Carlo shocks would be the right shorter, big body ones.
Whoever cut the springs I have (I'm guessing stock) cut some off BOTH ends (on right next to Aero spring) but I'm having to put them back in though I'm putting in 1" coil rubbers. When I started, the right side was1/2" off the bumper and the left was about 1" so I machined and welded a fancy 1/2"spacer for the left, assembled the a-arms and got the left 1 3/16 off the bumper and the right 1 7/8. Out came the spacer and both sides are now even at 1" - which will probably change when driven. Maybe it was the torsion bar mucking things up. I measured my stock 6 cyl car and it is about 1 1/2. I put the stock equiv shocks back in.
Anyway, can you see the difference between say, Torino spindles and brakes and the Granadas? Do the pics show if they look like Granadas?
Is the wagon front torsion bar a larger diameter than the passenger car? I can't use the Concours front bar because my frame is cut back for the front end tilt clearance.
I've been looking thru all the posts and pics in different forums, the Tahoe rear bar sounds interesting but I don't remember anyone saying what diameter it is.
Has anyone used the S10 springs that have the same rate as the Aeros?

[gasman826]

I ran into the same issue with front shocks.  The lower control arm shock bolt pattern is wider than the typical shock.  Before I came up with a solution, I went to air bags and the shock was relocated. 
Getting the perfect stance is a real challenge.  A lot of trial and error.  I will caution using the bump stops as a gauge.  They can be different on a car that sets level.  I would select a spot on the ends of the bumper or fender and confirm with the frame.  A 1/16" bump stop difference would be a large difference side to side by the time it gets to the edge of the fenders.

I'm not sure where the spindles came from but the calipers are not Granada.  Without researching, the calipers look more like late '60s/early '70s Mustang or Torino.

The OEM sway bar did not contact the frame.  PST offers a larger version of the OEM sway bar.  I use the PST version with air bags and no rear sway bar.  It's not a G machine but drives very well.

[RICH MUISE]

Lorne...I don't have a pic of the inner side of the Granada spindle, but here's some pics of the outer side and the caliper.
My question is I thought the Granada spindles were the ones that lowered the car, and all the others did not. If that is correct, I'm wondering why your car is so low if they are not Granada spindles?
I am assuming you tried the aerostar springs, as opposed to new stock height, because you were going under the assumption you had non-lowereing spindles?

[LAUDY57]

Gasman, you have a good point about the measurements -I need to do more checking to see if I level the frame will the body be level, however I could see the bumper was lower on one side before I started. That's the trouble with a tilt front end, it could sit improperly if all the rest points aren't correct. I'll check out the PST bar, thanks.
Rich, you're right. I thought I had non-lowered spindles because they looked pretty much the same heightwise as the stock spindles on the other car I have so I thought only the springs were chopped. I'm going to check into the S10 springs but since I want to use the thing this weekend I put everything back together - today I'm putting a skid plate under that fancy pan to the bell housing. We have to use a ferry to get off the peninsula we live on and there is LARGE bumps where you have to line up. This winter I can change pans and mill the bellhousing a bit when I do the rear seal. Not knowing what's being done to this car sucks more than I thought it would and I haven't even got into the engine (vac advance, vales, etc) yet!

[RICH MUISE]

If your spindles are in fact lowered, the springs from your 6 cyl car may work if you feel like robbing Peter to pay Paul. 6 cyl springs are what I ordered new from Eaton's for mine. Of course, I've had no engine or front clip on mine, so I can't tell you for sure how it's gonna sit. It would be interesting to compare our front end weights. You have (I'm assuming) a cast iron engine, but a fiberglass nose whereas I have the oem steel nose, but an Aluminum engine.
Eaton's compared my old 6 cyl stick setup with the new alum. 4.6 dohc/tranny complete with accesories and found them to be within 60 lbs. of one another.

[LAUDY57]

No, I don't want to rob the springs from my 6 cyl (seemingly overpriced) car because it's drivable, more or less. My front end is actually all steel, the hood and fenders were all joined by a framework to look stock (except for the side slot) so the only difference in weight would be slight because of my custom inner wheelwells and they're the same size more or less as the originals. So the whole front weight, I think, would be comparable to any other car with an FE engine.
The 5660 S10 spring has the same spring rate as the Aero (598/605) but is a little higher under compression, that's why I was asking if anyone had used them with any spindles.

[57AGIN]

LAUDY57:

I'm not sure if this response is on or off your topic, but back in the early 60's I had A/C station wagon springs installed on my 1st 57.  It gave the car the up in front "gasser" look.  That was in the day long before disc brakes and dropped spindles.  I don't know if the raise they would produce would offset your dropped spindles too much or not.  But, it might provide another approach to your ride height problem.  I also don't know if they are or aren't available inexpensively.

Bob
57 AGIN

[57AGIN]

LAUDY57:

I just saw "wharvey's" posting in the For Sale section for a Skyliner.  Perhaps the front springs in the Skyliner are more like what you might need.  You could check the Parts manual to see what it has to say about spring rates, etc.

Bob
57 AGIN

[gasman826]

I compared my Granada spindles to OEM spindles and there is an inch plus difference from the center of the spindle to the machined surface for the lower ball joint.
Now...I'm going to ramble on about my decision to go air bags.  They ride great!!!!!!!!!  Quiet!!!!!!!  Lighter.  The real reason is that my attitude my change from day to day.  Some days I want to drag frame and the next might be more NASCAR.  But if nothing else, it is the preservation of the bottom side of my car.  In Michigan as many other places, there is snow and lots of rain which makes the DOT engineers think big curbs which mean big humps into Mickie D's.  When I have to Baja at those car shows in the fields (side note: grass is for cows) or leap onto those ferries, I just push a button and up I go.  I can get that 4x4 stance going.   The '57s are fairly light and a couple people in the back seat, luggage in the trunk, 44 gallons of fuel...all this kinda ruins the perfect stance.  No problem.  It's worth thinking about.

[LAUDY57]

Thanks guys, I'll look at the A/C springs and get a better measurement on the spindle drop. I will put in bags eventually, I want to go to a 4 link in the rear anyway. I kinda shot the wad on buying this thing so improvements are going to be a longer term deal. Got the skid plate in today so at least I won't be stuck on a bump, and found out my engine sits 1/2" off centre (or tilted), I'm guessing it was a header clearance thing on the left side.

[gasman826]

Skid plate?  Maybe better safe than sorry.  I know I freaked the first time a plowed a furrow down the center of a humped up asphalt road.  Fortunately it was my bell housing and not the oil pan. 

A 1/2" tilt...that much could be in the mounts.  Loosen the mounts and pry it level and tighten the mounts.

[LAUDY57]

Any fixing of the centering or the tilt gets put on the list for now. Tomorrow I hope to get my doorlocks back from a locksmith who is supposed to be keying them and the ignition the same. I went to lock the car last week and realized, duh, I've only got one key! Something so obvious (like the reversed spring shackles I didn't notice until I saw them on the video I did) but hadn't thought of it because I don't need one for the trunk with its remote latch. I knew the doorlocks were upside down, like the ignition is, so I found an old key that I could make work except the locks wouldn't work. Off with the doorpanels and I see whoever put the locks in upsidedown didn't flip the little levers over so they weren't even in the bracket holes. Also, since one lock had the pin retainer gone, the pins and springs were in the door bottom. I put a silk stocking in the shop vac and got all the springs, the bent retainer, and all but one of the pins back to give to the locksmith. I guess a younger person who never had used the old double key system that we were all used to and the fact that keys were always inserted with serrations up was told to put the locks and ignition in and he did.
I guess those springs from the lock are the only link to this thread, but I did start wondering - why did we have 2 keys in all the cars? So one could be left in the trunk for carpooling? So if you had the ignition key you couldn't still get in or if you had the door key you couldn't start the car? Huh???

[RICH MUISE]

They are making repops on the door cylinder/pivot cover. The hard part to find is the cast "lever" that fits into the end of the door key cylinder. They are not making them any more. There are right and lefts on those also, which may be why they had the key cylinders switched left to right..trying to get those levers to work when they had them switched.
I'm surprised they were working upside down, ever??

[LAUDY57]

No Rich they weren't and couldn't work because the straight part of the shaft wasn't in the hole of the lock assy. I made one of those lever doohickeys for a friend who couldn't buy the correct one for his passngr side? lock, not difficult, just had to get the rotational angle correct for the side needed which was opposite to the example he gave me to copy.
BTW your front end must be lighter than mine because of your engine.

[RICH MUISE]

we're getting off subject from the suspension springs, but as long as we're on door locks. After spending 20+ years as a machinest/tool maker, one thing that really bugs me about working on my car is not having machinery to fab things. I know you mentioned when you first joined you had some eqiptment..I'm jealous!
Anyway, back to door lock levers...If you don't have machinery to make some...if anybody finds levers that are a bit shorter than your originals, there is a cheap, quick, no machining fix to make them usable. I bought some nos on ebay that I thought were the correct ones..listed as "'57 Ford non-station wagon models". When I got them, they were 1/4 inch shorter than my Custom oems, putting the 2 posts touching, but not going thru the latch holes. I have no idea what they would fit. Anyway, I found out the little brass tube inserts you would find in a plumbing department for hooking up 1/4 inch plastic tubing to an icemaker is a nice slip fit over the posts, and a light thumb-press fit into the actuating lever hole on the latch. The center post, I just sliped one of those inserts over the post to extend it. For 2 bucks, and less time than it took to read my rambling...
edit...center post got sleeve lightly pressed into latch. It was the arm that just had a sleeve slipped down over it. see pics on my next post