Road worthiness

[Limey57]

Inspired by a recent post by Ford Blue blood.

OK, I've been flamed for this before on a US C***y forum in the past, BUT I genuinely believe in it, so I'll say it again.

Cars are something I've always been passionate about, none more so than mid 50's to mid 60's Detroit iron, but by their nature and construction they wear out & degrade, in some cases leaving the car as a dangerous pile of s**te just waiting to kill the driver or others in the event of an accident or mechanical failure.  It's pretty obvious that the majority on here are more than capable of understanding what is and isn't safe/good/mechanically sound, but what about those that perhaps aren't so mechanically minded?  Or those that go and look at a car for sale wearing rose-tinted spectacles and get taken in by the shiney paint, new chrome and new upholstery, before handing over a bag full of dollars and driving off into the sunset in a death trap?

I know that each state has different motoring regulations, but do you think an annual saftey check would help here?  Don't get me wrong, I HATE any legislation that could potentially affect the way I use my cars, but over here we've had an annual safety test since the early 1960's (you may have heard it classed as the MoT test, MoT standing for "Ministry of Transport").  This test is compulsory for any car over 3 years old and is done every year, the test criteria is dependant on the vehicles age, but for older cars it covers things like brake performance, lights, vehicle structure etc, etc and the Ranchwagon shown in Ford Blue Bloods thread would NOT have passed!  I've seen some cars imported over here that were daily drivers in the US and to be honest I've scrapped safer cars.

How you guys legislate motoring has got nothing to do with me, but I'd just hate to see someone get hurt (or worse) by an unsafe car and politicians take a hard, knee-jerk reaction and put legislation in place that could limit/affect the use of older (or modified) cars.  Do any of the classic car bodies over there offer a voluntary check service?

Just to make things clear, I'm certainly not trying to preach or criticise, hell, I'd happily swap this cold damp s**t-hole for a place on the US West coast tomorrow if I could!  I'm just curious on hearing your opinions on trying to stop wrecks taking to the roads, one mans idea of "safe" is another mans idea of "death trap".

[JimNolan]

Gary,
   I don't worry about cars that are 50 years old. I worry about cars that are 10 years old. How many 50 year old cars have you actually seen that wasn't in a somewhat good or excellent condition. It's the cars that people use, never wash, never change oil in or never has their interior swept out that I cringe every time I see one. A lot of states still have inspection stickers each year but that is an automatic gift to thieves that take advantage of the non-mechanical motorist. Our state doesn't have it because we've already proved we had crooks that would own inspection stations. When I see a 50 year old car coming at me, I know he's watching out for me as well as himself. He has to insure his baby doesn't get hurt. Jim PS. You also don't have the number of cars we do, new or old, and driving a 57 Ford over there is a lot different than driving a 57 Ford over here. You drive on the wrong side of the road for one thing, how safe could that be to begin with. Ha

[RICH MUISE]

Good topic. To be honest, I'm a little confused as to why what is allowed on the road seems to vary so much from statet to state. Living here in Texas now, I see crap on the road that no way would have been allowed in other states I have lived in, at least at the time I lived in them. I'm not necessarily talking structural integrity, as I'm not sure any state does that thorough of an inspection, but stuff like windshields, fenders, tailights,exhaust, etc. The current ratrod fad is probably the best example of that. For the most part I think the minimal control is a good thing. I sure wouldn't want the government telling me what I could and could not do to a car as long as it met the expected safety requirements, and I think the buyer beware situation is more an acceptable state of being than the alternative of over regulating. The buyer beware problems though have become more of a problem with our internet life nowadays though. How many people bought a car sight unseen 10 or 15 years ago? Not to many. Unfortunatly, the internet makes it easier to unload a piece of crap much easier than it was before.

[gasman826]

National Street Rod Association (NSRA) does FREE inspections.  They do visual inspections at car events for free.  It is a warm, fuzzy inspection that points out the lack of working horn, wipers, and/or turn signals.  Some questionable design issues may be pointed out.

Back in the day, military base vehicle passes required inspections.  A '66 Fairlane GT gasser with straight axle I built was immediately thrown off a Naval base.  WHAT...WHAT!!!!!!!!

Many states attempted spot or mandatory vehicle safety inspections with poor results.  Vehicles with serious mechanical problems were passed over for vehicles no windshield washer fluid.  On the other hand, a lot of wrecks were tagged and sidelined.

[RICH MUISE]

I wanted to add that I pretty much agree with Jim...I worry more about the newer, but worn out cars you see driving around with windows taped in, a donut or two for tires, duct tape holding a bumper or fender on. I think the vast majority that own the classics vintage cars are much more car savy, and most of those cars are probably more safe than they were when they were new..disc brakes, radial tires, etc. I can't imagine there are too many non mechanical minded that have vintage cars, unless they were inherited.

[JimNolan]

Back in the day, military base vehicle passes required inspections.  A '66 Fairlane GT gasser with straight axle I built was immediately thrown off a Naval base.  WHAT...WHAT!!!!!!!!

That's the car I use to drive, Emberglow GT. Thanks for posting the picture. Awesome

[Ford Blue blood]

Inspection are only as good as the inspector.  VA has a pretty tight inspection program and it don't take long for word to spread as to the best place to get your car "inspected".  When I first moved to VA with my 70 Boss 302 I had a dickens of a time getting through inspection.  Took several calls to the State DMV, seems as though the rear window slats would "block" my vision even though the veiw through the back window was clear.  He was a very thourough inspector and did a good job following up and I did get it passed.  VA had inspections every six months, now every year, still don't stop the clunkers from being out there.

I am a firm believer in the NSRA program.  Have had my 36 "Safety 23 ed" every year since the program came out.  The need for a second set of eyes has been documented over and over again.  I also believe we as car folks need to organize and develope our own set of "rules" to live by because if we don't someone else will and we most likely will not like the outcome!  I support SEMA in every way I can as they have reigned in many neferious nar do well legislatures over the years and continue to do good work in that area.

All the rules and regulations in the world won't stop the crooks and scammers.  They will get around or through them to make a buck....but I could go on about this and medicine and coal and guns and......

[Limey57]

Thanks for being gentle!

Our safety test has recently been abandoned for pre-1960 vehicles and the UK classic car movement are trying to get it re-instated simply to try and stop the countless "parts cars" being rolled out of barns and put back on the road without any thought for it's condition.  Our roads are congested and full of sharp bends that spring up on you with no warning, plus a lot of our cars going back to the 1940's are of monocoque construction, with no strong seperate chassis giving the strength that you get on a lot of US cars.  In reality the number of classics on the road is so small that the real percentage "risk" is probably lower than being trampled to death by a three legged cow in an elevator.

I always try and make sure my older cars are kept in A1 condition, but a few years back when I restored a Triumph Stag I missed tightening up the steering column pinch-bolt, so although the car was rebuilt top to bottom I hadn't noticed a fault that the inspector picked up.

I agree that the test "pass" is only as good as the inspector (to be fair ours have to abide by a set of rules & guidelines leaving little open to inspector interpretation) and should never be accepted as a certificate to say the car is in A1 condition, but having seen some of the daily drivers imported here from the US that look great in photos but mirror the 57 Ranchwagon in the other thread close up.  Fibreglass, cardboard & filler often make up the materials for structural repairs!

Hotrods are a different item altogether, some builders ideas of sound engineering practice makes me shudder, bottomed out shock absorbers, incorrect steering geometry and welding that has the strength of an elastoplast can be seen at shows all over the globe.  Over here our rods are supposed to be subjected to an amateur-build type approval test which kind of destroys some of the creativity that can go with building a rod.

Being a born worrier I'm always concerned that a bad crash at the wrong time & place will make headlines & the Health & Safety brigade will make an example out of an unsafe (in their opinion) car.

I'll stop worrying now and go back in the garage for a bit.  After getting the door to fit nicely I'm now battling with the adjacent fender.......

[Limey57]

You drive on the wrong side of the road for one thing, how safe could that be to begin with. Ha

They used to drive on the same side as us in Sweden, but following a year of intense training for all drivers switched to driving on the right in the mid-60's (not sure why, probably to be the same as their adjoining country neighbours).  The insurance companies & body-shops must have been busy round that time.......

[Jeff Norwell]

We don't have any Annual safety inspection here.... I think the folks here would revolt.As we would just see it as a tax grab.There is an emission test on newer cars(TAX GRAB)
Any car being licensed has to have a safety inspection.
But.... if you have your car already licensed and completely do a rebuilt(like a frame off)... there is no need to have it re inspected.I agree with Jim Nolan..... I worry more about that crapped out 82 Volvo coming my way or Lousy truck drives with there tires that have come off and killed folks.

[hiball3985]

I worry about the 10-15 yer old junkers also. Most classic car owners seem to maintain their cars at a higher level then most. I'm totally against annual inspections as more government control but I wish some of the junkers weren't out there. I maintain the safety aspect of all my oldies, who wants to wreck one of those?

[jumping jack flash]

My brother was in England in the late 60's and early 70's, in the Air Force. He told me that if a car had different , size, brand, or model of tire it was a no. Also a no for a primer spot on the fender . He also told me of people over there who did their yard work in coats and ties. The Queen may drive by, and they wouldn't want to offend her with jeans. He did say he liked his stay in England, a lot . A lot of the inspection in England (then) had nothing to do with safety. It was about appearance. Perhaps , not a bad thing, but where does the government stop? Here in Texas , for the most part , our safety inspection is just that . .Some of the inspectors have been given stiff fines for not asking a question, about the car being inspected, and yet the car passed legally ,You never know who is an undercover for the DPS.

[Limey57]

My brother was in England in the late 60's and early 70's, in the Air Force. He told me that if a car had different , size, brand, or model of tire it was a no. Also a no for a primer spot on the fender . He also told me of people over there who did their yard work in coats and ties. The Queen may drive by, and they wouldn't want to offend her with jeans. He did say he liked his stay in England, a lot . A lot of the inspection in England (then) had nothing to do with safety. It was about appearance. Perhaps , not a bad thing, but where does the government stop? Here in Texas , for the most part , our safety inspection is just that . .Some of the inspectors have been given stiff fines for not asking a question, about the car being inspected, and yet the car passed legally ,You never know who is an undercover for the DPS.

Not quite right!  The inspection in England is pretty tame compared to other countries like Germany.  Appearances don't come into it, but minor body corrosion (rust through on wheel arches & the like) are classed as a danger to pedestrians (seriously) and are a fail!.  If the queen ever drives past my garage she ca get her butt into the garage & start block flatting the primer, there's a lot to do and se could do with doing a proper days work!!!!

[Limey57]

Just noticed my first "smite"!  This post was just a light-hearted look at how two countries with many similarities approach cars in different ways, please don't take it the wrong way!

[Lou]

Thank god Connecticut did away with inspections each time a car changed hands, it was nothing but PITA, and a way for the DMV to brake you balls. In the almost 40 years it ran, I never had a car pass the first time. The only time now a car has to be inspected is if it come in from another state, the last 10 years have almost been a pleasure going to MV.