update on Rich's build

[Ford Blue blood]

Need to reverse that....any orange peel you have will still be there.  Adding more material will not solve what you explained.  Needs to be smooth before more is added.  The sealer is to close up any weak spots in the primer, any metal that may have come through in VERY small areas or spots.  Your surface should be ready for top coat before the sealer goes on.  Does that make sense?

Following your build is it safe to assume this is your first time around the block with painting.  If it is you are doing a good job but I think working too hard to get the results you want though.

Play with gun pressure with the primer and top coats. Do this on an old part or a piece of sheet metal with a nice radius and a flat area to see the effects of the changes. Yes some material will be wasted but trying more/less with good notes on mixture will tell you a bunch.  I do have a primer gun and a top coat gun.  You can use the same gun for both but you should change out the tip and nozzle.  1.7 for the primer and 1.2 top coats, both single stage and base-clear.  You will have to change the line pressure at the gun for primer, top coats, mixture ratios, and to some degree air temperature.

[RICH MUISE]

Quote: "Need to reverse that....any orange peel you have will still be there.  Adding more material will not solve what you explained.  Needs to be smooth before more is added.  The sealer is to close up any weak spots in the primer, any metal that may have come through in VERY small areas or spots.  Your surface should be ready for top coat before the sealer goes on.  Does that make sense?"
Exactly.....but that was my problem in the past. I had the high build/surfacing primers all blocked out smooth ready for top coating and started with the acrylic sealer followed right away with the base coats. It was the sealer that I had trouble with the orangepeel, and of course I didn't sand it or would have lost the sealer properties. That's why I was thinking of sealing next, followed right away with a coat mixed to surfacing ratio. I figured I could then do the final blocking on that top/surfacing layer to get it smooth for the base/clear, and not break the sealing properties of the undelying sealer. hopefully improvements in my guns, and probably more importantly, larger 1/2" air hoses/hi-flo fittings will let me get the results I'm "shooting" for.
We're headed for Albuquerque in a short time, so I may not post until tommorrow evening.
Thanks again for the help and suggestions, Bill.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich, I'm going to guess you have tip/pressure problem with the sealer.  It should lay down like water.  Play with your mix, tips, and pressures before you "go for it" and see what happens.

[RICH MUISE]

I'll do that. Thanks.

[RICH MUISE]

update....looking at my car all disassembled and all the shiney stuff blocksanded to matte, makes me feel like I stepped back 3 years.
I have all the panels blocksanded now on their main surfaces, have to go back and get all the edges and underneath stuff, like the rockers. I'm not repainting the roof or splashpan or door jambs. I had pulled the door seal off the driver's door when I was doing the dent repairs and I am now spending hours with a soaking rag and adhesive remover getting the old weatherstrip adhesive off. I need to do that before I paint, and finish blocking that one door's window frame.
I still need to decide if I can paint with the doors, trunk and hood on, or if I would be better off fighting the space problem I'll have pulling them.
As close as it seems it is to spraying, I'm probably at the end of week at the earliest. I need to pull the car out of the garage, give it a good cleaning, straighten up and clean the garage, get my new hiflo air lines set up, practice with my new gun, find a new 5 gallon bucket to mix the basecoat paint all together in, pick up additional clearcoat in case I need it, hang plastic, scuff the entire car, clean, clean and clean again. mask the car, and hopefully be ready for the sealer coat.
I had been planning on a final sufacing primer coat, but my plans at this time, after talking with my paint supplier, are the sealer, then a really close inspection. If everything looks as good as expected, I'll go on to the basecoat/clearcoat. If I'm not 100 % happy with the way it looks with the sealer, I'll go to some surface primer coats then let it sit for a week before reblocking. Either way, I'll have all the needed components at hand.

[RICH MUISE]

update....today I will finally finish up the pre-paint blocking. It's been a ton of work, and some other issues along the way to slow it down (compressor, needed road trips, lol), etc., but  I'm really happy with the way it's looking so far. Aside from the collision damage I've been able to eliminate alot of nicks, scratches, and minor stuff. Different materials and a different approach this time let me at least prep it for a potentially better paint than I did the first time. As previously discussed, the first time I painted the car 4 or 5 years ago, I applied a sealer immediately followed by the base/clear. This time I sprayed the sealer, then a few coats of surface primer, which is what I've been blocking the past week or so.
Trial and error stuff.............I had bought a new 3M accuspray gun, which is what I used to spray the last sealer/primers. It's really a nice system, can get a wide (14"!!) spray, super easy cleanup. nice spray pattern. It won't work for me though because my compressor won't keep up with it for a large full car spray out. The compressor is a 220v 60 gal. single stage rated at 14.5 @60psi. If I had a commercial compressor, or was doing panel repairs it would be great. The spray pattern started out great, then started dropping before I finished spraying  the filled cup.
I had bought that gun after the DeVibliss on sale I tried to buy was out of stock. This time when I checked, it was in stock, so I picked one up last week. It's a DeVibliss Plus high efficiency (not hvlp) with 1.2,1.3, and 1.4 tips made specifically for base/clear. I still have reservations now about trying to spray my entire car at the same time because of  my compressor , and could potentially end up with issues trying to blend wet on wet, so to be safe, I think I'll do it in sections as I had done the first time.
So, to sum up, hopefully using the new non-hvlp gun, some changes to the compressor switch/cycling psi's, and spraying the hood and trunk separately will help get me where I want to be.
Looks like Friday I'll be ready to put some color back on it.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich just put the gun on line and pull the trigger (no material in it) and see how your compressor handles it.  Just sit there with the trigger pulled and see if you run out of air.  Doing that will use more air then the actual spraying as you will pull the trigger back at the end of a run.  The air in partial opening to keep the tip clear uses less air then when it is putting material down.

Don't be afraid, material does cost but the lessons you will learn while experimenting will solve all your application problems!

[RICH MUISE]

good tip...I'll do that tomorrow. Looking like Saturday for the spraying now. Where does the time go?!! Out of curiosity, how big is your compressor?

[Ford Blue blood]

I now have a new six horse two stage 80 gallon tank.  I trader cash and my old one for it last fall.  My old one that was with me for close to 25 years was a five horse single stage 60 gallon tank.  It was 9.5 CFM @ 90 PSI.  Both wired up to 220.

My old one (sounds close to yours) stayed ahead of my gun, DA, and air file, not so much with the sand blaster.  The 58 Edsel was the last car shot with the old compressor.  Because it was a solid color it was shot in panels.  The 65 Bird was shot all at once and had no problem running out of air.  The gun is a DeBlivess gravity feed.  Have only used the HF HVLP guns on small parts and under side until I get a good feel for them.

[RICH MUISE]

My new gun is a deviblis Plus, non hvlp. I just spent a few hours shooting the base...worked out really nice. Great spray pattern. There is a substantial amount of overspray though, something I haven't had to deal with with the hvlps I was using, but the compressor has an easier time keeping up. I never dropped out of the psi range while spraying. I think the overall paint is going to come out much better than the first time around, for sure the metalics are very consistent.....something I had a problem with ther first time I painted it. I was probably the only one that noticed except for my painter friend.  I'm taking a 20 minute break, then on to the clear.

[Ford Blue blood]

      

Most excellent!

Yes plenty of over spray, but it sure lays down the paint nice.  So happy you are on the right track.

[djfordmanjack]

So what about the clearcoat Rich ?

pics please!   

[RICH MUISE]

OK.....got the clearcoat sprayed Saturday as well. Had some issues, but not too bad, just adding a bit more work to make it right. I was trying a new brand clearcoat (Advantage 625). The first time I painted the car 4 years (?) ago, I used the Matrix brand, their best (I always use a particular brand's best available). I love the Matrix brand. You almost had to try to get a run in it. Couldn't get it locally anymore, so went to English Color's best selling brand. It had been in the 90's and 100's here for months, so when I bought the clearcoat, I bought the slow/Hi-temp activator figuring I'd need it with the heat. As it turned out Saturday never got over 70ish. When I started spraying, it was laying down really nicely, but I got a few runs in the clearcoat (4 actually), I'm assuming because of the slow dry activator. I had to back off on the volume, so as a result,not being a pro painter, I was getting some orangepeel. Not horrible, but at least I was not getting any more runs, and I also was not getting any dry spots.
I had sprayed the metalic base with the 1.4 nozzle, and the clear with a 1.3...same new Devibliss Plus gun. The clearcoat told me what I had suspected on my basecoat...that I managed to get a nice even pattern on the metalics. I haven't had it out in the sun yet, but in the garage that looks really good to me.
So, Monday I started blocking out the clearcoat. I'm using some (made in Germany) 800 wet or dry adhesive backed sand paper on rolls that can be cut for the longboard. I can't block for too many hours in one day, so it took me 2 days to get the driver's side blocked out. Today I did some asking around and found most of the shops do their color sanding with a DA. I still want to do the first pass with the mentioned 800 on the long board, but I did buy a box of 6" 1500 grit wet or dry discs for my DA (expensive stuff at 69 bucks for 25 discs, but glad I did)... I also bought a foam backing disc so it's got some "cush" on the curved surfaces. It took me about 1/2 hour to da the front fender and 1/2 the door. Wasn't sure if I'd go to the 2000 or 3000 afterwards, but I hit it with the wool pad on the buffer and Maguire's Diamond Cut 2.0. I still may go over it with a foam pad and some final polish, but the Diamond cut compound took out all the 1500 marks on the first buff.
The first pic of the passenger side is the clear as sprayed.
One reason I did some buffing today was to get a better idea of how my bodywork came out, and I'm really pleased. I think the driver's side may be straighter than befor I wrinkled up the sheetmetal!

[djfordmanjack]

that looks terrific Rich, you should be in the car painting business !
I bet it's gonna be some hard work doing all the sanding and buffing, but then it's coming out great !

[KYBlueOval]

Rich.........looks great. I need a trip to North Texas to take lessons. Can you please tell me the color of your car and what year vehicle  etc. that it was primarily used on? I've yet to decide on a color, but I lean towards Silver and Gray.........more gray than silver so the Stainless Steel side trim does not get "lost" against the silver color.
Thanks
John