update on Rich's build

[hiball3985]

Jim...yep, agreed on everything. Thanks for checking your control arm placement. How is your car lowered? spring or spindles?

Rich, I'm using stock springs, thats why I gave the dimension for a reference. It sits lower due to the Granada spindles. I thought about Areostar springs when I rebuilt the front end but they would have lowered it too much in combination with the Granada spindles.

[robhaerr]

Rich...a real beauty! I hope you post a video with the motor runnin'!

I tried the front springs from Eaton for my wagon and it sat too high like yours.

I am using the stock spindles and went with the Aerostar springs and the height seems ideal! I have the Concours front sway bar and rear sway bar, too, and it handles nice to me for an old grocery-getter. The rear is stock ride height. I did buy new leaf springs, bushings from Eaton. The front tires are turned slight left in the close-up photo. Here is a video that shows the stance driving away and towards if you scan thru. I haven't had any issues with ground clearance into driveways nor speedbumps, but I enter cautiously for both...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-5odSvX7E

I am using 205/60/15 tires in front and 205/65/15 in rear (hmmm, might be 215...I am not near the car right now).

[RICH MUISE]

Yep, Rob, your stance is where I want to be. Interesting your Eaton's were too high as well. Kinda confirms what has been said about there maybe being more than a 60 lb diference from the oem drivetrains. Kinda off subject, but what mufflers are you running?
I did find my invoice (from 2009) from Eaton's and gave them a call. He's a little unsure why it's as high as it is, but did give me a part number for a spring that's an inch shorter and a smaller wire size. He said that would drop the car 2" or more. Not going to do anything until I've got all 4 of the new tires on, have my rear springs replaced, and have driven it a few hundred miles...so, looking like next year before it gets resolved.
A pic of the front w/ bumper on, and a pic from the driver's seat. I love the look of the hood scoop from inside.

[RICH MUISE]

Rob...would you measure the distance from the bottom of your hd sway bar to the ground for me?? That'll confirm how much mine needs to drop. PM sent also. Thanks in advance

[RICH MUISE]

copied from a Hamb post I did this morning:

My conclusions to this point after all the input from the forums, talking to Eaton's, and reading Eatons technical info on their website:
1....Unless you've got an exact car your copying, a car should be 99% complete before judging/setting the final ride height. Mine is not. I need to get my rear end rebuilt and reinstalled with the new rear springs because that will affect front ride height. I've also got that one wheel/tire that is waiting for a backorder to come in so it can be replaced.
2.....each car differs on spring requirements based on the alterations that have been done to that car. What works in a  '57 ford with a 302, or an oem 57 drivetrain is probably not going to work in my '57 with an aluminum block/heads 4.6 and alum. tranny, alum radiator, etc.....and that I believe is the main issue and where my problem lies. Aside from actual component weight comparisons, other things factor in such as how that weight is distributed. I suspect an inline 6 may have more weight forward of the axels than some v-8's....particularly my v-8 because it's wider than it is long. So my conclusion there is, it's not only the weight difference, but weight distribution of my drivetrain relative to the front "axel"
To further expand on that, talking oem '57 stuff here....Eaton's has one coil spring used on 6's and some v-8's depending on tranny and w or w/o A/C. They have 2 additional coil springs with different spring rates available to meet oem specs. One of those 2 additional coil springs has a lower spring rate than the one used on 6's and some v-8's. That's the one they originally sent me, so in fact, the set on my car actually has a lower spring rate than the one for the oem 6 cyl.
I wonder why I don't sleep well at night

[robhaerr]

Rich...

I will do the measurement when I get home on a few days. It's probably in the 4-6" range.

Those are Magnaflow XL Mufflers. I wish I could try the next quieter muffler which Magnaflow told me is their "Universal Muffler". These XL "multi-chamber" are a tad loud in the wagon cavern at acceleration, but I love the tone while idling, cruising and in the motor's powerband (3000-4500 rpm) on the freeway. I don't like the "thwappy" sound when off the line, but more of the engine tone. Sounds great north of 2500 rpm.

The one-man muffler shop I went to said he knew exactly what I wanted, so I just went with it. If I had the information I think I have now, I would go with their Universal muffler. Maybe the "acoustical packing" in these would mellow the tone a acceleration. Here is the part number for the Universal muffler I would be using (2.5")...
http://www.magnaflow.com/products?partnumber=11226

Best...
Rob

[57 imposter]

Got to jump in on this one. I have no idea what is going on with the front end on my car I also used granada spindles from stop em and drop em which should have dropped it two inches. I also installed new stock coils and took 1/2 coil off. The car sits at least 2 inches too high. It has been sitting on the springs for about two years. The ride height on the wagon is exactly what I am looking for. When you say aerostar spring are you referring to a brand name or the ford van? if so, do you how many inches of drop you got? and is there specific years that will fit. experimenting with front springs is a real pain because it is a big job every time. thanks for any info you can provide. Looking at this thing has been driving me crazy because I have no idea why it sits where it does.

[lalessi1]

I have cut coils off of springs to lower cars before to little effect. I came to understand that cutting a coil off of a spring INCREASES the spring rate (makes it stiffer) and that can offset/negate any physical shortening effect. This is because a coil spring is a torsion bar and the shorter it is the harder it is to twist. There are other factors that determine overall deflection of a spring, coil spacing, free length, wire diameter and end configuration..., so one can see cutting a spring to drop a car is not a sure thing depending.... Another thing; the lower control arm acts as a lever to compress the spring and as such pivot point locations, tire force location and direction come into play. A car with worn out bushings will sit lower, a car with large positive offset wheels will sit lower, etc. This isn't an easy call to me. All things equal a 2 1/2" dropped spindle will drop a car that much generally, but all things are not equal here. Weight on the front end!!! Just my input. Best course of action...let the "dust settle".

[RICH MUISE]

Doug...I know you just got your car back from the body shop...what stage of having all the parts installed is it in? Also I forgot what your drivetrain is.
Aerostar= the Ford van's. I've been trying to get a vintage just so I could check the specs, but with our dropped spindles, I've only heard of one guy(non-57) who didn't get too much drop combining the two, and I believe he put a 1" rubber spacer/cup on the top of the coil. I don't think aerostars are the way we need to go because of the dropped spindles.
What new springs did you put on? If they're Eaton's do you have a part number? Eaton's has 3 different springs available off the shelf that meet oem specs. The 6 cyl spings are surprisingly not the lowest rated of the three. Additionally, "after the dust has settled", he gave me the part number of a spring which should lower the car "at least" another two inches compared to the springs I have now.
I talked to the Eaton guy (Gary) again this morning just to confirm what was going around in my head last night. One of our discusions was about weight distribution, and even though they had the weight of the 4.6/dohc w/ 4r70w to compare to oem specs, he wasn't aware of the fact that since the 4.6 dohc is wider than it is long, it probably distributed more weight behind the "axel" centerline than most v-8's with a comparable weight. He commented he wished they had that info back when I ordered the springs in '09 as it would have made a difference. After our discusion he said he didn't think my car had the weight/weight distribution  that the coils I have are rated for.
Doug..lot of redundant info, but this is the thread I've got going on the Hamb/52-59 social club. Dave from drop n stop is the "nascardave". with a few posts.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/dropped-spindles-but-wrong-stance.988952/#post-11144038

[57 imposter]

Rich  It has been virtually assembled for over a year. more than enough time for the springs to settle. I like you bought the coils so long ago that I have no idea where they came from but if I had to guess, they probably came out of Dennis Carpenters catalog. The car had a big block in it when I bought it and I had paperwork for new coils when that engine was installed. I swapped that out for the 5.0L and an AOD. With stock spindles the car sat perfect, so i an really baffled as to why with a supposed 2 inch drop with granada spindles and 1/2 a coil out, the car sits higher than it did before with everything else being the same. I can have coil springs made, but at this point I wouldn't even know what to ask for.

Rob...would it be possible for you to post a measurement from the center of your spindle or center cap to the fender lip.   

[BWhitmore]

I think an old trick performed by low riders was to heat the coil springs while installed in the car.  I am not sure what kind of ride it provided or if there was a negative effect on the spring itself but it seemed to work to lower a lot of cars.  Possibly a set of well used springs might give you the desired height.

[KidKourier]

      I'm also running the Concours sway bars on my Courier and from the concrete floor to bottem of swaybar =6" and from the center of the TorqueThrust center cap to the beginning of the fender lip{straight up} it's 13",I'm running 225x70x15 front tires! With the addition of the swaybars  I'm going to have to add a set of performance shocks to the front,stock ones aren't cutting it. KID

[djfordmanjack]

When I bought my Del Rio I was lucky enough to run into Blair ( the guy who built it 2 decades ago) at Long Beach swap meet. the car has Granada spindles and slightly cut OEM coils and a 351W/C6. the block is very close to the firewall ( mounted via reversed 57 motor mounts).  It handled very well, nice stance. not too low. no tire rubbing with 195/75-15.
Blair told me, that when he still had the 292 in the car with the same spring and suspension setup, the car handled badly, was bottoming out and generally misbehaving. he said that when he swaped to the 351  it felt like a new car and the spring rating was much better fit. so this goes to show how different weight and weight-distribution will affect the front suspension. I bet the Alu 4.6 is at least another 50pds lighter than the 351. I reckon the 351 is 70pds lighter then that old massive chunk of Y block iron. that is 120 pds difference, taking into consideration how the short Aluminium 4.6 will slip back to the firewall, it might subtract as much as 150-180 or more pds compared to a stock 6 cyl front suspension. that's half of a modern engine.
Blair told me he used Aerostar springs in his 56 2dr and everybody on the HAMB also said they were working very well. They are very reasonably priced, I have seen them as low as 70$ a pair. I think they might work very well on your 4.6 car, Rich. I'd give them a try and maybe play with rubber washers for the springs.

[djfordmanjack]

here's a good offer
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moog-CC850-Front-Coil-Spring-Set-fit-Ford-Aerostar-86-86-L6-2-8L-/311093252900?fits=Make%3AFord%7CModel%3AAerostar&hash=item486e9a5324&vxp=mtr#ht_1711wt_1238

they also offer these lift/leveling kits ( for ride height, adjustment)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-FRONT-LIFT-LEVELING-KIT-1-FORGED-ALUMINUM-COIL-SPRING-SPACERS-15-USA-/201418383898?fits=Make%3AFord%7CModel%3AAerostar&hash=item2ee578a21a&vxp=mtr#ht_847wt_1001

[RICH MUISE]

wow...lot of responses to an obvious common problem.
Doug....2 " isn't all that bad, I think you may gain 1/2 that when everything settles after at least 100 miles of driving. Having said that, one thing the Eaton tech info mentioned, was if a car settles more than 1/2" in a relatively short period of time after installation, then the spring is wrong.
Were the new springs put in prior to changing from the big block to the 5.0? I'm not sure what you were saying with the "had paperwork for new coils...". Were the control arm bolts tightened after all the weight was put on?

Bill...I know heating springs is/was common, but not anything I'd do to any car imho. Most everybody tells you if you do cut coils to cut them cold, as heat (torch) will destroy the springs. Makes sense to me...proper spring temper is derived from the correct heat treating.

Kid...How was your car lowered? My sway bar is about 9 1/4"!! About 2 1/2 higher than where I thought it would be. I assume since you didn't mention springs, your originals are still in place?

DJ.....couldn't have said it better. I think our main problem is all the modern drivetrains are so much lighter than the oem '57 stuff. That, combined with 58 year old worn out springs may result in an acceptable ride height, but as soon as you go to a new oem spec spring the cars raise way up. The Aerostars seem to be an acceptable solution for ride height, but not in combination with the Granada dropped spindles. The oem length on a '57 spring is 16",with a .70 wire size and I believe the Aerostars are 12 3/4 (not confirmed) with a .80 wire size. Given the cheap price of the Aerostars, it would be great to try them in my application since my engine seems to be lighter than most everyone elses., but, as Doug mentioned...that's a hell of a job for an old man.

To summarize for me.... I don't want old worn out springs on my car to satisfy the ride height. There has got to be (I hope) a safer and better performance solution that will work with the Granada dropped spindles. Right now, I'm leaning toward an Eaton spring that is non oem spec. For reference, my current Eaton MC1484 spring is 16" with a .70 wire, a spring rate of 432, and a load rate of 1720.He gave me a part number for a spring that is 15" with a wire size of .672. The spring rate is 346, and the load rate is 1440. He said it will provide a drop of at least 2" over the new ones  I have now. That PN is Eaton MC1364. I wish I was in a position to try it now, but I'm not...gonna be a winter project.