Looking for Frame Rebuild Advice

[KYBlueOval]

Yesterday I finally brought my Ranchero home to begin the rebuild. The body will be off soon and the first thing I'll be doing is the frame. So with that in mind, I'm looking for advise from those of you that have been down this road as to what parts to buy and from whom.This will not be a restored car. It will be a Hot Rod.
I've already bought dropped spindles and brakes from Drop 'em Stop 'em.
Coil Springs? Ball Joints? A frame bushings? Delrin A frame bushings?
What do you all think of the Borgeson Power Steering unit?
Shocks? Sway bars? Front and rear?
What have I not mentioned that I should know about before jumping in?
I only want to do it once and do it right. So please share with me you knowledge and experience.
Thanks
John

[lalessi1]

John, you are a brave man for asking this question... everybody has an opinion and you will hear a lot of em. Here is mine... stock springs in the front (since you have dropped spindles), station wagon (stock) springs in the rear. Front sway bar from Quickor Garage... it mounts like a 1959 stock bar and will not give you wheel/tire clearance issues. Rear bar from Concours Parts, it mounts above the axle. Front shocks...Bilstein, expensive but worth the money. Rear shocks...I have Gabriel Highjackers air shocks for adjusting the rake. I would use urethane bushings for the lower control arms and '58/'59 bushings for the uppers. Borgeson Power steering... (I think it is a better match for the suspension geometry than rack and pinion). Ball joints...dunno just make sure they are domestic. I might consider narrowing the rear end 1 1/2" inch for tire clearance.

In my opinion these mods will greatly improve the original performance and function without re-engineering the whole suspension. If money were no object I would buy a new custom frame from Fatman or Art Morrison. Good luck with sorting out all the advice I am sure you will get.

[KYBlueOval]

Thanks for your reply. I hope to get a lot of opinions. I was thinking stock coil springs. Any particular manufacturer? When you say Station Wagon Springs in the rear ( stock).....the Wagon springs are the same as A Ranchero, are they not?
I'll look into the sway bars and shocks. I understand the lower urethane bushings, but what is the difference in '57 uppers vs. '58/'59 uppers? I've heard good things about the Borgeson Power Steering. Ball joints from USA was on my list .
Now , about the rear end........Ford 9 inch? Or 8 inch? When you say narrowing it 1 1/2 , you are saying 3/4 " on a side for a total of 1 1/2 inches......correct?
Unfortunately, money is a concern in this build, so I will not be calling Fatman or Art Morrison.
Many thanks for your input.
John

[RICH MUISE]

Alot of what Lynn said...Stock coils on the front due to your dropped spindles...Eaton's  Detroit for those.
Rear springs from McVeigh's. wagons/Rancheros/police are 6 leaf (that's what I'll order...you can always remove a few leafs), the passenger car they list have 4 springs.
NOT SURE IF GEOMETRY IS A PROBLEM WITH r & p, i'LL KNOW BY NEXT YEAR.  JT Fabrications for the R & P. You do lose some turning radius, but gain lots of exhaust clearance.
I'm reading that the '59 sway bar is a bear to install. The concorse/TBirds Southwest is a snap. Tire clearance shouldn't be an issue for those with R & P, as they've already lost that turning radius.
Yes 3/4 narrowed on each side for the oem 9" rear..total of 1 1/2
Search for a thread on rear shocks...Jim Nolan experimented and came up with '56 Ford (?)shocks for longer travel...less of an issue with tire changes (as is the narrowing of the rear end). I keep saving and losing that thread for some reason.

[KYBlueOval]

Thanks Rich. Great information.........I appreciate it very much.
John

[RICH MUISE]

I found Jim's thread ....
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=2674.msg15175#msg15175

[RICH MUISE]

Forgot a biggie.....the body mount kits that all the vendors sell is manufactured by Dennis Carpenter. When they are out of stock, everybody is. I had to wait almost a year before they made a run of them, so order them early just to make sure. The other issue with that may be I'm not sure DC makes a body mount kit for the Ranchero, so it may take some time/research to find out what the ranchero guys are using.

[Zapato]

John, years ago I used a Fatman kit to install a Volvo box in a 51 Ford. The steering on a 57 is pretty much the same. Now that Volvo box is almost impossible to find, However Cadillac Cateras used a even better improved version of that same box, physically they're almost identical. The same box was also used in Isuzu Rodeos and the Honda version. They're incredible power with a good road feel. I bought from a local guy that was parting one out (got everything) for $45. I believe it will work nicely and if not didn't spent much.  I haven't seen a Borgenson box install someone can correct me but they look really bulky might make things tight for exhaust routing. The box that Gearheads sells gets nothing but bad reviews on the HAMB, not sure if they're still in business or not.

If you even consider this box be sure and get the joint that connects box to column, no source for them in the marketplace.

Zap-

[lalessi1]

Thanks for your reply. I hope to get a lot of opinions. I was thinking stock coil springs. Any particular manufacturer? When you say Station Wagon Springs in the rear ( stock).....the Wagon springs are the same as A Ranchero, are they not?
I'll look into the sway bars and shocks. I understand the lower urethane bushings, but what is the difference in '57 uppers vs. '58/'59 uppers? I've heard good things about the Borgeson Power Steering. Ball joints from USA was on my list .
Now , about the rear end........Ford 9 inch? Or 8 inch? When you say narrowing it 1 1/2 , you are saying 3/4 " on a side for a total of 1 1/2 inches......correct?
Unfortunately, money is a concern in this build, so I will not be calling Fatman or Art Morrison.
Many thanks for your input.
John

Clarifications;  Springs.... Eaton is a great spring company, they can custom wind springs and if you are going to replace your front springs they can compensate for engine/transmission/accessory weights, McVeigh for the rear. I forgot when I was posting that you already had 6 leaf springs, so I added "(stock)". Bushings.... the '58/'59 upper control arm bushings are a factory improvement that retro fit. I prefer upgrading to later model improvements when possible. Rear end... 3/4" on each side and I would use the 9". Sway bar.... Rich is right, the Quickor front sway bar is tougher to install on an assembled car, shouldn't be an issue while rebuilding a frame.

Steering.... conventional recirculating ball steering boxes like the Borgeson are not sensitive to "feedback", in other words bumping the pitman arm does not move the steering wheel much. On the other hand rack and pinion boxes are very sensitive to suspension movements, a movement of the rack moves the steering wheel directly. This is considered a desirable feedback. The problem that this creates is a steering set up that is very sensitive particularly when trying hold a straight line. To compensate for that, modern cars incorporate suspension geometry that use a lot of positive caster angle. A high posistive caster angle causes the car to hold a straight line but makes the car harder to turn. '57 Fords use very low positive caster settings as part of their suspension geometry, better suited to conventional steering boxes in my opinion. I also personally think that turning radius is important to drivability and rack and pinion steering generally will sacrifice turning radius. Chassis builders typically will re-engineer the suspension geometry to fix these issues, so it can be done, but..... 

[KYBlueOval]

Thanks to all of you that have offered advise...........I really appreciate it! This is exactly the information I was hoping to get. Keep it coming!
John

[KYBlueOval]

John, you are a brave man for asking this question... everybody has an opinion and you will hear a lot of em. Here is mine... stock springs in the front (since you have dropped spindles), station wagon (stock) springs in the rear. Front sway bar from Quickor Garage... it mounts like a 1959 stock bar and will not give you wheel/tire clearance issues. Rear bar from Concours Parts, it mounts above the axle. Front shocks...Bilstein, expensive but worth the money. Rear shocks...I have Gabriel Highjackers air shocks for adjusting the rake. I would use urethane bushings for the lower control arms and '58/'59 bushings for the uppers. Borgeson Power steering... (I think it is a better match for the suspension geometry than rack and pinion). Ball joints...dunno just make sure they are domestic. I might consider narrowing the rear end 1 1/2" inch for tire clearance.

In my opinion these mods will greatly improve the original performance and function without re-engineering the whole suspension. If money were no object I would buy a new custom frame from Fatman or Art Morrison. Good luck with sorting out all the advice I am sure you will get.

I've been buying suspension parts as I'm about ready to lift the body and get started on the frame. Front and rear springs and ball joints ordered, along with rubber bumpers and misc. other parts. I'm having difficulty finding a source for the urethane lower control arm bushings. Where do I get them?
Upper control arm bushings for a '58/'59......is there another source besides Mac's in Lockport NY.? They have them at $24.00 a piece. Seems a little high, but if they are THE source and the parts are what I need, I'll part with the $100.00 for the right bushings.
Thanks
John

[lalessi1]

John, look at this thread. It has info you are looking for. The urethane bushings may have to be modified, the upper arms will need different pivot arms.

http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=5679.msg46720#msg46720

[RICH MUISE]

I see you're looking for a replacement bed...are you sure you want to pull the body off the frame before that is done?

[Ford Blue blood]

The bed is a one piece item with a gajillion bolts that hold it down.  I do not think it needs to be in place to lift the body as the entire under structure is basically 300 including the rear foot wells.  Mine actually twists less then the Edsel when jacking on one side.

Now having said all of that, be carefull as much rust can be hidden in that structure!

[KYBlueOval]

John, look at this thread. It has info you are looking for. The urethane bushings may have to be modified, the upper arms will need different pivot arms.

http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=5679.msg46720#msg46720

Thanks for that thread. I've read it all several times. And as always, I take the advise of those that have come before me on these very same issues, and you have never let me down. Now, I have this question. To do this, must I use the '58 bar in the '57 control arm, or can I just use the '58 control arm?  I'm rebuilding the entire front end, springs, ball joints, bushings etc.. So.....Can I get a used pair of '58 Upper Control Arms and rebuild them with bushings and ball joints and install  or must I swap out the bar on the '57 control arm for the bar in the '58 control arm, and then rebuild? I guess my question distills down to this.......are the '57 and '58 control arm stampings the same with different bars and bushings. Now to further confuse things...........are the '58 Ford Upper Control Arms the exact same Control arm as used on short wheel base '58 Edsels? I ask, as the Edsel National Meet will be in Louisville next week, and I can make a phone call or two and have a pair brought to their swap meet.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
John
Thsnks
John