Pinion angle experiences

[RICH MUISE]

I'm curious if any of the members who have done engine swaps have had to alter the pinion angle. I know it is something that should be checked, I'm not sure at what point it becomes an issue and needs to be corrected. I'm aware that pinion angles can be altered to a small degree (pun intended) with angled lowering blocks. I'm asking about this now because in all likelyhood I'll be adding lowering blocks at some point in time after my new 6 leaf springs have settled, and before I change the front springs.
I'm thinking what I need to do is get the car up on my concrete driveway, remove the front wheels and lower the car to the desired rake, and check the pinion angle angle at that point. Any o-pinions?

[lalessi1]

Rich, here is a great article about the subject...very informative.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/paint-body/91758/

strange http address?

[RICH MUISE]

That was a good article, thanks for posting. The 3 souces they quoted had some fairly wide variances in regards to leaf spring desired angles. I'll try and find a great video that featured a machine they were using to actually show the oval rotation a driveshaft made when the angles got too far out.
What I'm mainly asking about though is what the '57 guys have experienced after their engine swaps.
http://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/2014/07/26/video-driveshaft-angle-and-phasing/

[BWhitmore]

Rich - I do not have experience with the pinion angle for a modified 57 Ford but can tell you my experience with a modified 54 Chrysler Town & Country station wagon.  I restored this car several years ago using the original 331 hemi adapted to a turbo 350 trans and an open drive line 9" Ford rear end (the car was originally equipped with a fluid drive semi automatic and a closed drive line).  The modifications were done with the original leaf spring rear suspenion (new bushings, new springs).  I set the pinion angle (using a magnetic angle gauge) at 5 degrees negative.  When driving the car there was a noticeable whine that occurred at 45mph and got louder as the speed went up.  After talking with Currie who rebuilt the differential they suggested I use wedges to increase the pinion angle to 7 degrees negative.  My experience was that despite all my research on the proper pinion angle, the best way to determine the best angle was driving the car above 40 mph. 

[hiball3985]

I wouldn't worry about pinion angle at this point Rich unless you experience some vibration. Wait until everything settles. The angle you are worried about is the relationship between the trans output shaft and the rear pinion, the front springs won't change anything but the rears will when settled and that amount will be minor.

[RICH MUISE]

"the front springs won't change anything but the rears will when settled and that amount will be minor."

Now you've messed up my thinking!!!!! I had it figured out the rear springs  wouldn't change the pinion angle too much because the differential is, except for tire/wheel height, always going to be the same height to the ground...it's only the body/frame that changes. You have to physically rotate the differential to change it's angle. If I'm thinking correctly, lowering the back actually changes the engine angle, not the differential angle.
I'm assuming here when we talk about "pinion angles", we are in fact talking about the relationship of differential, engine, and driveshaft, not just the differential/pinion.
On the otherhand, when you lower the front, the engine lowers along with it, and the engine angle changes along with it if the back isn't lowered an equal amount.
Ah Geez...another sleepless night ahead.

[hiball3985]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you Rich, but I think you are over thinking the situation 
the angles between the trans output shaft and the rear pinion have to be parallel to each other. It doesn't matter what angle the chassis is on, the angles between those two doesn't change with chassis angle.  The trans angle will always remain the same. The rear end will change a little because the spring swings up and down in an arc pivoting from the front mounting location, that amount is so small it really doesn't change much.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich the engine angle and the pinion angle should be measured with the car at ride height.  Here is the example of how I do it and have not had any issues over the years.

[SkylinerRon]

Depends on use.  Racecars use more negative (down) pinion angle as they rotate up under power.
If you are using leaf springs with some type of traction bars (Caltracts etc) rotation will be limited to a few degrees.
Main thing is to limit rotation and wheel hop.
Goodluck,

Ron.

[lowrider]

I had a problem with pinion angles on my 57 when I converted to a 5sp. It had a terrible vibration starting about 55mph to near 70 mph. Had the driveline shop recheck the balance of the driveshaft I used along with replacing the ujoints. All checked good. Checked the driveline angle (used the Ford dealership tool while I was still working) after much eyeballing and head scratching. I found that the pinion was "nose down" in relation to the yoke at the trans. A couple 2* shims under the axle housing fixed my situation.

[hiball3985]

I had a problem with pinion angles on my 57 when I converted to a 5sp. It had a terrible vibration starting about 55mph to near 70 mph. Had the driveline shop recheck the balance of the driveshaft I used along with replacing the ujoints. All checked good. Checked the driveline angle (used the Ford dealership tool while I was still working) after much eyeballing and head scratching. I found that the pinion was "nose down" in relation to the yoke at the trans. A couple 2* shims under the axle housing fixed my situation.

Just curious where you placed the shim? I put one between the axle and the stupid rubber insulator so I had to hog out the center of the shim to fit the big rubber.

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks for that reply Lowrider, that's exactly what I was curious about with my opening question.
Also, from your reply, Jim, I figured out you did have to adjust the angle as well.
Where are you guys finding these shims...all I've found so far are lowering blocks with 2*.
Rich

[Ford Blue blood]

Shops that align large trucks (beam axles) have them and you might find them at trailer fabrication shops.  The trailer fab shops is where I get the axle saddles from.....

[hiball3985]

Also, from your reply, Jim, I figured out you did have to adjust the angle as well.
Where are you guys finding these shims...all I've found so far are lowering blocks with 2*.
Rich

I had a few left over from my truck straight axle. I've seen them online and for some reason they get what I consider ridiculous prices, I don't remember them being that expensive. I have ones made from brass and some from aluminum.

Back when I put in the 3speedOD trans I used a later model 9" to get away from the 57 design pinion flange and pinion seal and a different gear ratio. I had a new driveshaft made also. When I first drove it I had a small vibration so I checked the pinion angle. Pinion was -2 and the trans +3, that shouldn't have caused a problem but I corrected it anyway, the vibration was still there  I knew the trans tailshaft bushing was a little worn so I replaced that and that fixed about 50% of the vibration. I finally pulled the driveshaft and took it back to the shop and they found it was running slightly out of round. They corrected that and the vibration went away completely, it's smooth as glass up to 90mph, I still haven't had it above that speed. I ended up removing the shim and I'm pretty sure now that the new trans mount has settled the trans is probably close to +2..

Edit: This place has cheap one, other places I've seen were like $30
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspension/Degree-Shim.aspx?t_c=1&t_s=101&t_pt=5502&t_pn=EXP99-200&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gp=1&gclid=CL6HpqXKmsoCFUhlfgoddnkHgw

[RICH MUISE]

Now we're cookin'.....Thanks Bill, and Jim...I've got that link saved.