Disc brake conversion...

[mustang6984]

Okay...I have read a lot of the other postings on this subject...and seen nothing like what I am asking...so:
I have a set of spindles and rotors with calipers from a '69 Mustang. (rotors are still on the spindles and calipers still on the rotors/spindle mounts) Can I use this set on my '57?

Running an FE with most likely a Mustang II front suspension, will I need  or should I swap over to power brakes. (I am pretty much tempted to do so)

I see the general consensus is that the best master/booster set-up is from a Galaxie of the '67 - '68 vintage. Can those still be purchased from a Ford dealer? Or is there another source?

I also saw where someone ran a line to the front brakes only, and a line to back brakes only, and skipped the proportioning valve set-up. I am guessing this was due to a double master...correct?

Any other info people think I can use, I will surely take. This car is being built to run up miles...LOTS of miles. So I want ease, comfort and ability to stop with both. Thanks!

[Ford Blue blood]

First I would keep the 57 front suspension.  While the MII is a good suspension it is not superior to the 57s.  The cost of putting the MII in would pay for new suspension components for the 57 twice.  Upgrade the bushings with readily available kits from Kanter, find and install a new front sway bar, 58 Edsel works well for example then purchase a kit for the front disc designed for the 57 spindles or drop & stop spindle/brake kit. I recommend a kit with a dual 8" booster.  Get the best shocks you can find and run the thing.  The Borgeson power box is a good product, a 59 - 64 box will do the job and give stock turning radius.  The various rack and pinion kits out there while they do a good job do have one drawback (IMHO), they reduce turning radius.

You need the "funky" looking proportioning block.  Not only does it split the systems up, that little plunger inside of it slides when a failure occurs in either the front or rear seals off the failed system, turns on the brake light and gives you some brakes to get off the road.  I know this from personal experience, a blown out rear flex line on my street rod two miles from the house.

[RICH MUISE]

X2 on everything Bill said!

[mustang6984]

Thanks Bill. I am all for saving $$$ on this project. The front suspension currently under the car was put in brand new in '76...and then the project was sidelined. I have never had weight on it, and the suspension is still without miles. So, assuming that the ball joints and other grease fittings will still hold grease...it would be good to go.

Do yo have a favorite website to go to for the Borgeson unit?

Or the disc brake kit? Or are you a fan of the Granada set-up that requires the drilling out of the lower spindle mount?

And the 8" booster kit...again, a favorite website for those?

I've been out of the 57 world for a long time, so I am still trying to work my way around all the stuff that can/should be done to make this thing a one time build. LOL!!! I have yet another to do along with a couple of other projects.

Thanks for the ideas...like I said...saving money is always a good thing for me!

[lalessi1]

I would think you are ok if the rubber is still good.


Borgeson has their own website. With part numbers you can buy from Summit, they may not have the latest info from Borgeson.

http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/home.php?cat=114

I had early '70's Torino spindles and Ford disc brakes. Was suspicious of front end geometry so I went back to stock spindles and used a Wilwood conversion kit, stainless hoses and a '67 Galaxie dual master cylinder for a car with disc/drum brakes. I love my setup. The calipers are a 4 piston fixed design instead of a single sliding one. Super light!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILWOOD-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-FRONT-58-68-FORD-MERCURY-EDSEL-11-ROTORS-BLACK-CALIPERS-/291280155037?fits=Year%3A1957%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item43d1a6719d:g:VnQAAOSwF1dUT8NS&vxp=mtr

I don't have a power brake booster but I would talk to Dave at Drop 'em & Stop 'em. Some have had issues with 8" boosters.
http://www.dropnstop.com/full-size-ford.html

Good luck!

[RICH MUISE]

I'm guessing Lynn's willwood setup with the 4 piston calipers is as good as you'll find, but with that said I'm very happy with my Granada spindle and disc setup from drop-n-stop. Dave, the owner, is as good as you'll find answering questions and being helpful, and what you get from him will be ready to bolt on...no reaming. You just have to tell him which ride height drop you want.
Yes, some of the guys have had issues getting power brake boosters in general to perform well (I'm NOT talking  drop n stop's...I'm talking ebay and big online speed shop's stuff), but I suspect it's more of an off-shore supplier type problem. A handful of guys here have gone the hydroboost route and as far as I know, all, including me, are very happy with the system's braking.
12 or so years ago, I inquired into why Fatman didn't make a Mustang II setup for '57's. (at the time they did not). I was told by their staff the reason they didn't was because whatever set-up they could make would not be an improvement over the oem design, so why bother?? Good point I thought. Not sure what changed since then, I suspect nothing.

[mustang6984]

I looked into Mac's antique Auto Parts. They have an 8" booster with a dual master specifically for '57 Fords. I am thinking I would like to go that route. Heard anything about that set-up?

I'm guessing Lynn's willwood setup with the 4 piston calipers is as good as you'll find, but with that said I'm very happy with my Granada spindle and disc setup from drop-n-stop. Dave, the owner, is as good as you'll find answering questions and being helpful, and what you get from him will be ready to bolt on...no reaming. You just have to tell him which ride height drop you want.
Yes, some of the guys have had issues getting power brake boosters in general to perform well (I'm NOT talking  drop n stop's...I'm talking ebay and big online speed shop's stuff), but I suspect it's more of an off-shore supplier type problem. A handful of guys here have gone the hydroboost route and as far as I know, all, including me, are very happy with the system's braking.
12 or so years ago, I inquired into why Fatman didn't make a Mustang II setup for '57's. (at the time they did not). I was told by their staff the reason they didn't was because whatever set-up they could make would not be an improvement over the oem design, so why bother?? Good point I thought. Not sure what changed since then, I suspect nothing.

[lalessi1]

I honestly do not know much about the 8 boosters but I think Richs' advice is dead on. I talked to Dave at DropNstop and he helped me with couple of issues, no profit to him. I really would trust the man. I personally would hesitate buying a vacuum booster from anybody else but him. He even told me what valve covers would work with my FE engine. He is the reason I dumped the spindles I had. He has a disc brake conversion, but I can not over praise the 4 piston Wilwood set up. i have a "Sure Brake" factory set up for my car, don't even know if I will use it. 

[gasman826]

Sooo much to say and so little space.  I have Granada brakes on two of my '57s.  Granada rotors came in two sizes.  I would stay away from the smaller rotors (6 cylinder models).  With Granadas on the front and Explorers on the rear, I stop really good at a street performance level.  Competition road racing might be inadequate.  Are Granada brakes the best, NO but for free they're great.  If I had to pay the going rate for a new set, I'd go another direction more like a stock drum spindle conversion like dropnstop.

As far as boosters, I have one with the hydraulic booster and one with a dual 7".  I like the hydraulic booster best.  It's on a big cam engine with little to no idle vacuum.  Very pleased with this system.  The other booster is on a disc/drum system with a stock y-block with automatic.  I bought a dual 8" booster and it would not clear the tall y-block exhaust manifold.  Sent it back and the dual 7" bolted right on with only 3/4" clearance to the manifold.  I've checked the temperature a few times and seems to be no problem.  Other engines or the use of headers (or a 460), the 8" would not have been a problem. 

Of all the disc conversions, I've never used an OEM proportioning valve.  Instead, I've installed Wilwood manual, adjustable rear bias valves.  I have always adjusted the valve to least control.  The last three conversions, I've used Wilwood master cylinders and NO bias valve.  None of these vehicles exhibited early rear brake lockup.  If my system has a failure, I don't need a light to tell me I got problems!

Don't know everything...just sharing.

[RICH MUISE]

Lots of good info Lynn and Gary. Just wanted to add I do have the wilwood proportioning valve. When I first set it up, like Gary, I left the backs wide open, but first time I did a panic stop in traffic the backs locked up and the rear wanted to come around (lol..I'll never figure that out...seems like if the backs are locking up it shouldn't want to come around, but they do). Anyway, when I got home I turned the knob about 1 1/2 turns in and have never had a problem with the rears locking up first again. Also should state I have 4 wheel discs.

[mustang6984]

Okay...so let me share what is going into the car:
390/428 with Cobra valve covers, 4 speed, dead red stock engine. Not looking to make it into a asphalt curler. So vacuum should be same as it was in the day.
I plan on disc front, drum rear. Rear is a 9" running probably the 330 gears that have been in it since I bought it. I swapped out the T-85 3-speed w/overdrive because the FE that was in it was eating transmissions. The 4-speed is a top loader, and since I went to that...no problems.
Car is being built strictly for cruising/vacations...(some of you guys may be getting visits...I'll bring the beer!  ) I plan on running 14 inch wheels, with tires the equivalent of my last set, which were GR70-14. (tells you how long ago I last ran this thing eh? LOL!!!)

So...with that info...anything above change? Or am I best served to go with a Granada set and Wilwood? Is the 7" going to be enough to handle that front end weight? Or will the 8" clear those FE valve covers?

As you might surmise, I am trying to make the spot on choice here the first time, so i don't have to re-do anything. And since many of you guys are MILES ahead of me in knowledge and experience...I am driving you nuts with questions. Sorry. But I believe in seeking out the best and most sensible options before making a choice! Besides...like I said...you never know...when that beer will be showing up! hehehehehehe!!!

[RICH MUISE]

14" steel rims that will fit disc brakes are getting hard to find, and I'm not sure if any of the aftermarket  billet/aluminum 14" wheels will fit discs. That is also another consideration when deciding on which disc brake kits. Many have bigger rotors than others limiting the wheel size and choice. Many here have gone to 15" wheels, but that eliminates the use of oem hubcaps of course.

[mustang6984]

Yea, and I wanted to keep my stock '57 hubcaps. I can find the wheels...it's the calipers that will clear them that is a problem I suspect. Which is why when I was going through my stuff I jumped for joy to find that pair of '69 Mustang spindles and rotors.

14" steel rims that will fit disc brakes are getting hard to find, and I'm not sure if any of the aftermarket  billet/aluminum 14" wheels will fit discs. That is also another consideration when deciding on which disc brake kits. Many have bigger rotors than others limiting the wheel size and choice. Many here have gone to 15" wheels, but that eliminates the use of oem hubcaps of course.

[RICH MUISE]

That's kinda backwards from what I was trying to say. It's not that 14" wheels are hard to find (they're not), it's finding 14" wheels with 5 on 4.5 that were made to fit over calipers. You'd have to do a search, but I think the old Granada or Lincoln Versailes were some of the few 14's that were ever made by Ford for disc brakes.??. I think Rich Kurbowski (sp?) found some a year or two ago

[mustang6984]

Ah...okay. Sounds like I may have to do some searching. Or abandon my desire to use the caps.

That's kinda backwards from what I was trying to say. It's not that 14" wheels are hard to find (they're not), it's finding 14" wheels with 5 on 4.5 that were made to fit over calipers. You'd have to do a search, but I think the old Granada or Lincoln Versailes were some of the few 14's that were ever made by Ford for disc brakes.??. I think Rich Kurbowski (sp?) found some a year or two ago