Toploader 4 speed, mods to crossmember.

[59meteor]

Since the stock 57-59 Ford cars used a rubber pad/U shaped strap setup to secure the transmission to the crossmember, wondering what some of you guys with C4/6 autos, or a Toploader 4 speed, to mount the trans to the crossmember. I hope to be installing my Mock Up FE engine and 4 speed Toploader into my 59 2 door sedan over the holidays. I want to see if any modifications will be needed to my stock clutch linkage. Since I already have a new set of the FPA headers designed specifically for a FE in a 57-59 car , which route the pipes over top of the crossmember, I would prefer to not have to do a lot of cutting to the crossmember, if possible.
Also, since my Toploader has the speedometer hole on the passenger side of the tailhousing, I assume that my stock speedo cable from the original automatic will be too short to reach. Anybody know how or where to obtain a longer cable that will fit? Thanks.

[RICH MUISE]

Check Lynn's thread in the General Tech section on speedometers.....there are cable and gear issues being addressed there that may be of interest to you.
Your "mock-up FE engine"...did you pick up a plastic P AYR block?

[lalessi1]

I have a 24" Toploader on my FE. I am running FPA headers. I had stock manifolds and stock z-bar linkage. I had to move the pivot ball on the engine side bracket about 1" to the rear though to get it to work. I also had to make a bracket to bolt the rear motor mount (transmission mount) to the cross member. When I installed my  FPA headers they would not clear the z-bar so I went with a hydraulic clutch actuation system. I modified a 65 Mustang set up from Mcleod. Back in the day I bolted in an FE/T10 using factory parts, so I know there is a way to do that, finding the right combination of parts is an issue now. I went to the Ford dealer back then and bought every '58 part that was needed to bolt an FE in my '57 with all Ford parts.

I made a bracket out of 1" flat bar and 1" square tubing spacers to replace the transmission U bracket. I didn't cut the crossmember at all.     

The stock speedo cable is too short. I bought an 84" (if I remember right) on eBay that is plenty long enough. You need to
make sure you get RH drive speedo gears.

My drive shaft works but it is too short for comfort with the 24" Toploader. Let me know how I can help with pictures or whatever. I have been up and down this road a few times.

[SkylinerRon]

The best way to do this is get a  Galaxie  output shaft and tailhousing.
They will put the shifter and mount in the correct positions.

You can then use the 59 mount, a 61 up 4sp add on hump, a shorter drive shaft and
your old speedo cable.

Sounds like you have a Mustang trans which will put the shifter too far back, into the seat.

Goodluck Rory,

Ron.

[59meteor]

Rich, no my mock up engine is a complete 390 long block I had laying around in the garage. A little heavy and bulky, but despite the car being freshly painted, I elected to remove the front clip, so I have lots of working room to play around with the clutch linkage, headers etc.
Lynn, which model of FPA headers do you have? The short version that is specifically made for 57-59 Fords or the longer Tri Y headers that are actually built to fit 67-70 Mustangs/Cougars?  I am determined to retain the mechanical clutch linkage, and will make modifications as required. I would be interested in any photos that you could post, that show what you did for the trans mount.
Ron, my Toploader is originally from a 66 Fairlane, which has 5 shifter mounting holes, the rear located Mustang location, and the forward Fairlane position. Luckily, the Hurst Super Shifter 3 I have has a mounting plate, and long enough rods to work in either position. It looks like the forward Fairlane location should work with the stock bench seat. Since I am trying to make use of a bunch of parts that have been laying around the garage for years, I plan to use the trans and shifter I have on hand. I know the Super Shifter will require a pretty big hole to fit the tunnel, but I can live with that. As long as I can find a longer speedo cable, I should be able to make my trans work. Time should tell.

[lalessi1]

I originally tried the Tri Y headers.... they terminated about 3" from the crossmember basically centered with it. No way to make a smooth exhaust transistion over the stock crossmember. I now have the shorty style designed for the car. I will take a couple of pictures later today. I have Comp Plus shifter from an early Corvette. It fits well and has a removable shifter handle. The adapter is from a '70's Torino and is a Ford part. The shifter requires a very small hole in the floor and puts the shifter at hand, albeit close to the seat. A 25 1/2" Toploader (or a 27") would put the speedometer drive in the LH '57 location and in my case my driveshaft fit would be perfect. This is the speedo cable, 82", that I used. What rear gear do you have?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/60-61-62-FORD-GALAXIE-MERCURY-SPEEDOMETER-CABLE-/230992925978?fits=Year%3A1961%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item35c840551a:m:mH29by6G9WZGgbKB9yAefiA&vxp=mtr

[lalessi1]

Ok, here are the pictures. the first three are of the transmission mount "clamp". The flat bar is 1 3/8" x 3/16' thick. the square spacers are 1" x 1" x 1/8".

After looking again it does look like the Z-bar may fit. I had to move the ball about 1" closer to the firewall, see picture.

I may have to do more than 1 post...

[lalessi1]

Picture 2

[lalessi1]

Picture 3, a sketch really...

[lalessi1]

Picture 4, header clearance for z-bar engine side pivot.

[lalessi1]

Z bar engine side pivot modification.

[59meteor]

Thanks for the photos Lynn, I now understand what you were describing. I was thinking about somehow using a later style rubber trans mount, your solution looks pretty sturdy, and fairly easy to duplicate.
Looking at you engine side Z bar bracket, I have to assume that bracket is from a Y Block? It is much bulkier than factory FE bracket that I have, which is from a 58.I also bolted up an engine side bracket I had laying around from a 73-76  Ford PU, which clears the header tubes by almost 2"s, but moves the pivot ball too far back, but can be modified as required. My 59 came with a 332 FE and 2 speed FordOMatic, luckily I have another 59 parts car out back, which still has its 223 6 cyl and 3 speed manual in place, so I swapped the clutch & brake pedals into my 59, and I was able to purchase the Z bar, engine side bracket, and lower linkage, from a fellow who was parting out a 58 Ranch Wagon with a 352 & 3 speed manual. I am using either a Lakewood scattershield or a later factory bellhousing, so I may have some mix & matching, and fabbing to get it to all work. I will report on my progress. Thanks.

[lalessi1]

Honestly I don't know what that bracket is from, I bought it on eBay with a bunch of z-bar stuff. The issue is that the distance from the face of the block mounting surface to the center of the pivot must match the frame side bracket. I did buy the right parts from Ford in 1966 and they fit. We all know the correct factory parts will work the issue now is finding the right stuff.

My transmission  bracket "design" allows you to compress the rubber as much as you want by changing the spacer height. I measured the depth of the original bracket and tried to duplicate it. My bellhousing is a late model Mustang. I have a spare '64 narrow pattern bellhousing as well...  I have spent several years "studying" and buying stuff  to get to this point. My goal has always been to use Ford parts with no modifications to bolt everything together. Still "collecting" parts.....

I would love to see pics of the '58 332 z-bar parts.

[59meteor]

Lynn I will try to post a few shots of the 58 & 59 clutch linkage in the next week or 2. Unlike a 57, the 58 & 59 Z bar uses a solid lower rod, the adjustment is done at the top, from under the hood. The 58 & 59 have threads at the end of the rod that goes from the clutch pedal to the Z bar. The Z bar has a pivoting clevis that the upper rod goes thru, with a nut on either side of the clevis.
When my 58 FE clutch linkage stuff arrived, I was suprised to find the FE Z bar virtually identical to the 6 cylinder Z bar I removed from my 59 parts car. Width, lever length and position were the same, the only differance was that on the 6 cylinder lower lever, was that the pin for the lower clutch rod points towards the engine, while the FE unit, it points towards the drivers side.  According to my 59 parts catalog, the 6 cyl. and Y block Z bar have the same part number, the FE has a different number, but other than the lower pin orientation, I  see no visual difference. Like a 57, the Z bar pivots used split bronze bushings in the tube, unlike plastic pivot balls as used in the later Fords.

[59meteor]

Well, I installed the dummy FE engine into my 59 2 door sedan yesterday, along with the Toploader 4 speed and FPA headers. Unlike 57s (and 58s), the 59 engine mounts use a single lower stud, rather than 2 studs, naturally the mount brackets on the round crossmember also have a single slot per side. One of the first things that I noticed, was that I will either need to elongate the bottom of the slots on the frame brackets, or shim the mounts up a bit. My new jobber motor mounts have the studs right against the bottom of the slots, yet the mounts themselves are still about 1/4" each from sitting all the way down against the frame brackets. Maybe my new jobber mounts are not dimensionally identical to factory,or prehaps there is some minor differance between mounts for a FE, Y Block, and 6 cyl. Another situation is that the C5TE FE pickup truck bellhousing seems to have the clutch fork in a bit lower position. To clear the FPA headers, I had to relocate the lower lever of the Z bar to the left side about 1 1/4", however, the levers pin for the lower clutch rod is about 3/4" higher up than the fork in the bellhousing. Does anbody know if the truck bellhousing have a different fork orientation than a C6OA car bellhousing, or a stock 58-59 bellhousing? I supose that I could just make the Z bar lever a bit longer, but I am concerned that the reduced leverage may make the clutch pedal feel too stiff. Not everyting was problomatic, the FPA headers fit very nicely, a bit close to the passenger side frame rail, but no actual contact. Adequate clearance around the steering box and upper control arms, the stock full sized 65 and newer starter can be installed without unbolting the R side header. I have the front clip off the car, and installed the engine, bellhousing, and Toploader all bolted together, and with the left side header bolted up.It was a bit tight, but all fit in without any scratches to the firewall. The next step will be to get a trans mount dealt with, and cutting a hole for the Hurst Super Shifter. Then try to get the rest of the clutch linkage figured out. But at least some progress is being made.Also, after cleaning up the trans crossmember, pretty obvious that quality control and robotic welding were not in place in the 50s! Looked like something fabbed  up in a Grade 8 welding class.