body sealer

[Marc]

When taking my 57 apart, I found a lot of sealer / goop in areas like around the grille, and at the top of the vent windows. It was still semi-pliable after 60 years, and when it goes back together I'm planning to reapply it.
My question is, what's a good product to use? I'm not concerned with using original materials, but I figure it served a purpose and would like to use a more modern substitute. Is plain old RTV a good option or are there better choices?

[RICH MUISE]

Pat Fleishman/suede57 is a 3M rep...he'll have some good input if he sees this. Yep, Ford liked that goopy stuff all over...I probably didn't put back 25% of what I took out.

[SkylinerRon]

If it works why change it?

Ron.

[Ford Blue blood]

Is plain old RTV a good option or are there better choices?

No and yes.  Pat should be able to provide a good option.  Or just go to a automotive paint supplier and have a discussion with them.  All carry various kinds and grades of sealer.

[RICH MUISE]

If it works why change it?

Ron.

Not sure what you meant, but if you meant why change to a different product, the products used 60 years ago are not available any more, at least by their '57 designated part numbers. We'd like to think technological advances have improved things, but we also know that isn't always the case.
If you meant why not leave the original stuff on there if it's still pliable, if it were me and I had stripped the car that far, I'd want to see what's under the goop...looking for rust.

That said...next summer I'm repainting the roof on my '57 because of adhesion issues with the
new" sealant in the rain gutters.
HOW NOT TO DO IT:.........
This was a definite "live and learn" experience for me. The roof was the first exterior body panel I stripped, prepped and epoxy primed. All the interior panels and undercarriage were 100% stripped, repaired, treated with metal etch/zinc phosphate, and por-15'd. Likewise, the roof was stripped, treated with the etch/phosphate, sealant completed in the gutters, and epoxy primed.
The difference here was the etch phosphate and how it has to be approached differently depending on the topcoat.
I used the por-15 Metal Ready (has a new name now, which I forget)for the etch/phosphate. The process leaves both a residue(yellowish) and a coating (grey). At minimum, the residue has to be removed/cleaned off before next coating is applied. If a panel is to be por-15'd, that remaining grey coating makes a great surface for the por-15 to adhere to. HOWEVER, contrary to manufacturer's claims, it does not make a suitable base for primers (or sealants). I found out before I got any further epoxy priming done on the car, that the coating was creating an adhesion problem for the epoxy primer, and I went back and stripped the roof except for the rain gutter with sealant that took so long to get smooth. It was a bad decision at that point to leave the sealant, I should have removed it and da'd the coating off the gutters as well.
There is a posibility I por-15'd the gutters...I don't remember, but I do remember contemplating it. I'll know next summer when I strip it.
Pat Fleishman  told me last year the proper way to do it is to epoxy prime the bare rain gutter first, then apply the sealant. (he said he used panel adhesive for the rain gutter fill)

[suede57ford]

There are several seam sealer options depending on the area to be used.
Don't use the old "fast and firms", "drip check", "all around body sealant" and especially don't use silicone.   All those products are old outdated technology, shrink and crack.   If it's in one of the old cartridges stop using it, its junk compared to new stuff.  We do have some new cartridge products which are urethane and they will be listed below.

One important step is that it always best to primer all your bare-metal with either an epoxy or urethane.  VERY IMPORTANT:  DO NOT use spray can ETCH primer under any seam sealer or fillier!!!.  If it comes in a spray can do not use it under other products ever.  the acid and lack of catalyst in those products will result is seam sealer not sticking. This is the most common mistake for guaranteed failure, next to no primer in the seams.  NO ACID ETCH or SPRAY CAN PRIMERS!

Best Practice is to plan ahead and epoxy or urethane prime all the bare metal and seams, then do you body work and seal sealing.  If Ford would have done that, there would be more '57 Fords left. 

There are one parts(cartridge and flex-pack) and two parts(fits in panel bond gun and goes through mixings nozzles).

ONE PARTS(Moisture Cure)
For thick gaps and a very rubbery sealer you can use the following flex packages with a Flex Pack 8398 applicator: (8360white,8361gray,8364beige) or Cartridge; (8362gray, 8365beige,8368 white, 8369,8370). These all can go over bare metal but I would primer with urethane or epoxy primer first.
Best practice is to get whole car primed and prepped, then do the seam sealer right before reprimering or painting.

TWO PARTS( use 8571(economy) or 8117 applicator and 8193 mixing nozzle
Two Parts are going to be the best for most applications

8308 Heavy Body Seam Sealer(black) stays fairly flexible, wont crack, must have prime under it.  How every you apply it, that how it will dry in appearance.  Some benefits to that in duplicating special textures.  Many of the trick can be found on YouTube under 3M Tech Tips.

8310 Bare Metal Seam Sealer(Beige), same tooling characteristics as 8310, but can go over bare metal.

5887 EZ sand Repair Material(gray) this one is really cool, it flows some so the tooling marks flow out.  This one works good for a half round smooth bead.  Lay two strips of masking tape down the width of the bead, apply the sealer and then remove the tape, the sealer edges will lay down smooth.  I tdries in 15-20 minutes and can be sanded if you wan to shape it up.   This is what they use on the new f150 roof ditch repairs and fixing bumper covers.  Gets very firm, easy to sand, but is very flexible.    It must have a good two-part cured primer under it.

8115(Panel Bond Adhesive) is one of the most versatile seam sealers and adhesives. This product is epoxy, and dries fairly rigid.   It is the best choice over seams that don't flex much like welded floor pan seam (you can smooth them and body work to make invisible seams), the firewall trough, and my favorite, is the drip rail around the roof.  Put the 8115 in the drip roof drip rails and shape with a finger or a shaped spreader.  After the panel bond is dry you can shape and smooth it with 80-180 sand paper and prime over it.  It can be applied over bare metal or primers.  This is the one that I also recommend for steering when repair.

Plan ahead! Your local paint store may not stock or even know about any/all these items.  Paint stores just keep selling what most use not necessarily the correct or best products.  Special order what you need now if necessary, that gets you the freshest products. 

With an applicator this may be an investment, but what does it cost to redo one down the road?

Those are some options, choose the best for your application, and go watch some "3M Tech Tips on Seam Sealer" and you can do a professional job that will last a lifetime.

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks for taking the time to do that Pat.....hope you were on the clock, lol.
Maybe we could get James to copy your reply and pin it.

[gasman826]

best way to do those gutters is cut them off

[Marc]

Wow, lots of info there Pat! Thanks for taking the time to go into detail on this. The gutters were fine, and the sealant there is not an issue as its already been taken car of and the car is painted. My biggest concern right now was with the goop that surrounded the grill and was sandwiched between the fenders and front gravel shield. I dont know why Ford put it there, but it seems to have done a good job of keeping sand and moisture from collecting in those spots which is why I'll reapply it.
The original stuff seemed pretty rubbery, and because it'll be in an area where it wont be visible I'm not concerned with whether or not the product is sandable or paintable. I see a butt load of seam sealers on the 3M website. One concern I have is just how well some of these products adhere to the panels? At some point down the road if I have to remove the grill for some reason, I'd hate to find the sealer has become one with the metal.

[suede57ford]

The soft sealant used between the panels is similar to the modern day "Strip Calk" PN# 8578.   It is  a soft non-hardening material to be used between joints and seams.  It comes in thin black strips, sticks in place, and can be stretched and thinned out.   This product is great to use when putting interior trim items like the dash to cowl and garnish moldings on at places of contact to prevent rattles and squeaks.  Some place the factory used a white version of it for sandwiching between the fender and where the aprons bolts and between the front header panel and the fenders.   It stays soft and compresses, but seals the joints well and Yes, the parts can be disassembled and the sealant removed/cleaned-up with standard wax-grease remover in the future. 

It is similar to windshield butyl tape (#8610,8611,8612) that is in a roll for windshield installation before the safe/stronger urethane caulk became the standard.  If I can't find a box of Strip Calk, you can often get a small roll of butyl tape from a glass shop and use it in place of the strip caulk as they are essentially the same product, just in different packaging. Some people call it Dum-Dum.  I have found it in white version, used for roof panels on metal buildings, for doing a car that originally had white strips(early mustang fenders to inner fender aprons).

You'll see it on modern cars hold the plastic rain guard sheets underneath the door panels or around the tail light suds to seal water out.

I use it all over when I assemble a car, especially when installing the dash or interior trim.  Often OEM Service/Warrantee bulletins recommend using it for leaks and rattles. 

It's super sticky, stays soft, prevents metal to metal contact, panel movement, and rattles, as well as sealing seams.

[djfordmanjack]

that's terrific firsthand info, Thank you so much !

with all those products out there today it's really difficult to choose the right one.
My Country sedan frontend has never been disassembled so I found all the soft greyish sealent around the inner fenders, grill surround, gravel guard aso. I was also thinking how it could be replaced if I ever had to pull the fenders. both my wagons will need drip rail work and sealer later on as well. I will safe this topic and hopefully it will go into the tech info section as well. it's priceless to have all that information !

[djfordmanjack]

I have pasted the important sealer info to a word document if some of you would want to simply download it and safe it to their files.

[Ford Blue blood]

Great job guys!  Good to have stuff like that in one location!

[lalessi1]

A big thanks to Pat as well. Guenter, I saved your doc, that info is worth keeping in a separate place.

[Marc]

That's awesome. Thanks!