fuel-pump issues

[racton]

 :unitedstates:Hey fellas im thinking i figured out why my car has been stalling 10 percent of the time when i roll up to a stop street.Because yesterday the fuel pump(after having sit for 13years)and providing another1500 miles of service) quit alltogether. I went to Napa and they said they couldnt get the one I need for my 272.I found one in Macs catalog reasonable.I wondered if there was a supplier any of you might recommend,before I order from Macs.Thanks racton

[suede57ford]

Is it hot where you are at?   Does it stall in the evening or just during the day?   Could be more of a heat issue which causes vapor lock and or boiling of the fuel in the bowls of the carb.  If it acts like its flooded and hard to restart after it sits off for a few minutes or when in traffic where heat is the greatest on a hot day it boiling the fuel into a vapor and the needle and seats cannot control a vapor only a liquid.  Often hard to initially diagnose as but the time it has stalled and floods and you get pulled over and get the hood open and air cleaner off to look at the bowl vents for flooding the fuel has cooled down just enough so you don't see it actually boiling. 

The fuel quality nowadays is the big issue. Remember when they had summer and winter mix fuels to prevent boiling/vapor in the summer and freeze up in the winter?   That was when everyone had carburetors.  Now with nearly every vehicle on the road fuel injected at high pressure(which raises the boiling point) there is no longer a concern for the few carburetor cars still being used. 

Vapor lock is boiling of the fuel in the line so no fuel flows.  This is worse with engine mounted fuel pumps which use vacuum to pull the fuel.   When you lower the pressure(vacuum) of a liquid(fuel) it lowers the boiling point even more, which is why vapor lock happens on hot days.

I have several cars that run and stall in the middle of the hot Texas afternoon in heavy traffic, but work perfect during the cooler evenings or cooler days of the year.

My 57 sedan has a VR57 supercharger which compresses the air which heats it up some, then the factory teapot has the bowls on the top inside the bonnet. On a really warm day it may boil while driving in town over and over again because the heat cannot get out and the fuel instantly boils when it hits those hot bowls.   

My recent solution has been take (3) 5 gallon cans to my local small airport and get 15 gallons of 100 octane no lead AV gas and fill my muscle cars tank when I get home.   I don't drive them as many times a week as I used to so this has been an acceptable solution for driving in town during the hot summer.  By running the AV gas straight, as it's not really much more than premium for a car I occasionally use.    The heat drivability issues are cured nearly 100% with this system.   I return to regular Premium Unleaded pump gas during the cooler months of the year.   I wasn't a fanof using special gas in my cars during the summer, and resisted, but the pump gas fuel quality is so low now that driving a car that could boil the fuel and stall on a hot day became dangerous in heavy traffic.   Another local car collector has a about 60  '55-'60 cars in his collection and he let me try a tankful of fuel on a day my '69 428CJ mach1 was boiling the fuel and died many times on the way to his place.  After filling up with his special mix fuel it drove home flawlesly.  He drives an old car every single day and has some cars that stall on a hot day unless it has good fuel.   Another plus of the higher quality AV gas is the issue that it doesn't have ethanol in it and doesn't hurt rubber lines and gaskets and it doesn't go stail as fast in a car that is not started often.

Of course check all the basics, like plugged fuel lines, fuel filters, and fuel pressure.  Phenolic carb spacers are a good practice to isolate heat from the carb, but not always a cure-all on a big engine under a large air cleaner.

[racton]

  Well i ordered one from Macs,$116 to the door.If the parts are available I would like to have mine rebuilt.Thanks for listening racton

[Lgcustom]

Is it hot where you are at?   Does it stall in the evening or just during the day?   Could be more of a heat issue which causes vapor lock and or boiling of the fuel in the bowls of the carb.  If it acts like its flooded and hard to restart after it sits off for a few minutes or when in traffic where heat is the greatest on a hot day it boiling the fuel into a vapor and the needle and seats cannot control a vapor only a liquid.  Often hard to initially diagnose as but the time it has stalled and floods and you get pulled over and get the hood open and air cleaner off to look at the bowl vents for flooding the fuel has cooled down just enough so you don't see it actually boiling. 

The fuel quality nowadays is the big issue. Remember when they had summer and winter mix fuels to prevent boiling/vapor in the summer and freeze up in the winter?   That was when everyone had carburetors.  Now with nearly every vehicle on the road fuel injected at high pressure(which raises the boiling point) there is no longer a concern for the few carburetor cars still being used. 

Vapor lock is boiling of the fuel in the line so no fuel flows.  This is worse with engine mounted fuel pumps which use vacuum to pull the fuel.   When you lower the pressure(vacuum) of a liquid(fuel) it lowers the boiling point even more, which is why vapor lock happens on hot days.

I have several cars that run and stall in the middle of the hot Texas afternoon in heavy traffic, but work perfect during the cooler evenings or cooler days of the year.

My 57 sedan has a VR57 supercharger which compresses the air which heats it up some, then the factory teapot has the bowls on the top inside the bonnet. On a really warm day it may boil while driving in town over and over again because the heat cannot get out and the fuel instantly boils when it hits those hot bowls.   

My recent solution has been take (3) 5 gallon cans to my local small airport and get 15 gallons of 100 octane no lead AV gas and fill my muscle cars tank when I get home.   I don't drive them as many times a week as I used to so this has been an acceptable solution for driving in town during the hot summer.  By running the AV gas straight, as it's not really much more than premium for a car I occasionally use.    The heat drivability issues are cured nearly 100% with this system.   I return to regular Premium Unleaded pump gas during the cooler months of the year.   I wasn't a fanof using special gas in my cars during the summer, and resisted, but the pump gas fuel quality is so low now that driving a car that could boil the fuel and stall on a hot day became dangerous in heavy traffic.   Another local car collector has a about 60  '55-'60 cars in his collection and he let me try a tankful of fuel on a day my '69 428CJ mach1 was boiling the fuel and died many times on the way to his place.  After filling up with his special mix fuel it drove home flawlesly.  He drives an old car every single day and has some cars that stall on a hot day unless it has good fuel.   Another plus of the higher quality AV gas is the issue that it doesn't have ethanol in it and doesn't hurt rubber lines and gaskets and it doesn't go stail as fast in a car that is not started often.

Of course check all the basics, like plugged fuel lines, fuel filters, and fuel pressure.  Phenolic carb spacers are a good practice to isolate heat from the carb, but not always a cure-all on a big engine under a large air cleaner.

Thanks for posting this! I need to try the Av gas thing. Been having hot weather stalling issues with my 460 powered Custom for a while. Maybe this is the answer.

[thomasso]

All my old cars have an electric auxillary switched fuel pump for that exact reason.  Alcohol added fuels suck and they really screw you at the pump for alcohol free premium. And you still have to add lead.

[CobraJoe]

I run 3-4 gallons lo-lead 100 Octane Av fuel to a tank of regular gas with good results. It also allows me to run a lot more advance than I could on regular pump gas.

[rmk57]

Dont you need to have a pilots licence to purchase avgas?

[hiball3985]

Maybe each state has different regulations. We can no longer buy it in California, at least not at a little local airport..

[CobraJoe]

Here in MA, I walk into the airport fuel terminal with a fuel jug and go out onto the airfield and they fill it up. I pay for it on my way back through and I am on my way. It's convenient because they are local and open until 7 pm every day. No questions asked. Don't hold me to it, but I'm pretty sure they told me that by law, it has to be a guaranteed 106 octane, no matter what the stated rating is, for aviation use.

[suede57ford]

I wouldn't tell them that you are putting it in a car to be used on public roads.   The taxes are figured differently and that's why they don't want you using it automobiles.

My Uncle and several friends have small aircraft. If I'm ever asked what the fuel is for, I tell them "my uncle sent me down to get some gas for his plane".

You have to bring gas cans. Never ever ask them to put it in your car.   You are jeopardizing the ability for all of us to use this necessary fuel we need for these unique vehicles.

We are a very small group still using these carbureted cars and we do not need abuse the system so hopefully we can continue to get the small amount of fuel we need for our specialty cars to operate safely during the hot summer months.

[rmk57]

I did a little investigating online at a couple of our local small airports and they have self serve, unattended, pay at the pump service. Open 24 hrs to boot.

I have at least one car that needs all the help it can get with fuel issues.

[racton]

 :unitedstates:i have my new fuel pump and gasket.How can I know that the camshaft is in the best location to remove and reinstall the pump.i remember fighting it like crazy when i was 16.thanks racton

[rmk57]

Place a hose on the outlet of the pump, then crank the engine over a few times. Should be a good shot of fuel each time the eccentric pushes the pump lever down.

I guess I should have added to pull the coil wire so the engine wont start with leftover fuel in the carburetor.   

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Randy, doesn't the pump provide a squirt of fuel on the return stroke of the pump arm?  That's how the spring in the pump determines the fuel pressure.  If it pumps on the first stroke, the fuel pressure would be limited only by the strength of the actuating lever.   John

[rmk57]

Yes, your right. Funny thing I've bench tested a few and never noticed which way they build pressure. I just hoped they did their job.