Door locks, left & right

[Tom S]

Kind of long & a bunch of stuff here that you guys in the know already know & have done. I looked all over & at every door lock thread I could find but never quite found the answers I wanted so maybe this will help somebody new to '57s.

The purddy blue '57 Ranchero I bought from a classic car dealership in Portland & had shipped up here has a long list of problems. I'm slowly trying to figure out just what the goofballs that assembled this car did & how to make it right.
One problem, relatively minor to many others, is that I could not lock the doors. If I pushed down the lock sometimes, but not always, I could unlock it but could never lock it with the key.
So what's going on?  Here's where these little digital cameras sure come in handy.
The first pic: Looking straight up from below you can see that the 'door lock tail piece' is not in the proper position.
Door lock tail piece??  http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=7556.0
Ok, now I see the problem but this kinda scared me off from trying to remove the lock.

... For the first timers,  the outside door lock retainer must be pushed toward the outside of the door as it is pried toward the rear.  The clip does NOT come out.  Just move it enough to release the lock assembly.  Pulling the clip all the way out will ruin it!  There is no gasket for the lock...just the handle. ...

Looks like it might be kinda tricky to get that clip out anyway what with such poor access.
So I loosened the screws to the door latch allowing me to move it enough to slide that door lock tail piece back into it's proper position.  Tightened the door latch back up & tried the key.
It locks but when I turn the key back to vertical to remove it it just unlocks again. : (
I was turning the key clockwise to lock & counter clockwise to unlock. The ratty unused '58 Ranchero's locks work as they should and lock by turning the key in the opposite direction.
Now I know why the door lock tail pieces are different, a left and a right.
See here: http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=7556.0

I just wanted to mention that the left and right tail pieces look very similar or identical, but in fact they are not and will not function correctly if switched. Ask me how I know.

Thanks Rich!  And thanks to Gasman & all the other very knowledgeable guys on this great site.
Somebody swapped my door locks  side to side so I gotta move 'em to the opposite doors.
After some poking around I discover that the tab of the door lock retainer clip is hidden under the new weather strip on the doors. Just have to peel off a bit the weather strip to get it out of the way out of the lock retainer clip.
(If it ever quits raining so I can pull the Ranchero out of my overloaded 2 car garage & can then get both doors open!)

[hiball3985]

I feel your pain, I just went through the same situation were the previous owner installed the locks on the opposite sides, which also makes them upside down.. Sad part is this guy was a locksmith.

[Tom S]

Hmm... Mine aren't upside down. Just didn't work.
On another note, like you, I believe I have Granada spindles & power disk brakes. Also a Borgeson power steering box.
I want a lot more castor! Got to keep on top of steering all the time on our roads.  People run studded tires in the winter, (not me), & it makes groves in the main road tire tracks, pulls the car around.
Also, stock 390 exhaust manifolds do not clear a Borgeson box.
Was touching. I ground on the manifold & the top edge of the box but now I see it's still touching slightly. A giant struggle to get that manifold out & back in but I gotta do it again. : (
I sure like your Ranchero!
BTW, WTF are you doin' up at 4 am?! About 3:20am here, I'm hittin' the sack.
 

[hiball3985]

I get up around 4am every morning, but thats another story.
The problem with Granada spindles if thats what you have is always a problem. I have them too and wish I didn't. Who ever came up with this idea to improve braking never considered driveability. I have fooled with it many times and you just can't get enough caster without loosing the camber. The best I can get is +1 caster and 0 camber. I don't care what anyone says the Granada spindles have the wrong geometry for a 57 as far as I'm concerned. If I had known this before I rebuilt my front end I would have milled some material off the upper controll arm pivot shaft pads, were the shims go or found stock spindles and after market disc conversion, but I'm getting to old to do now.

[gasman826]

When Granada spindles swaps became popular, there were few to no alternatives.  Granada spindles were plentiful which meant cheap.  The goal was to get better, higher speed braking.  Mission accomplished!!!!!!!  Oh...you also wanted more alignment adjustment for better higher speed handling.  That was secondary.  Any two cars with the same amount of alignment adjustability is just pure accident.  '57 Fords were not designed for much positive caster (PC).  Most had no power steering and with few interstates and bias tires, there wasn't much need for PC.  I use Granada style spindles because they are cheap, work well, all Ford parts, cheap replacement parts and I like using OEM parts...it's what we did as kids to beef up a car...rob heavier duty parts off new cars, bigger cars, and sometimes trucks.  There were no Jegs, Summit, eBay, or Scaresbird.  When I did the Custom, the frame was heavily modified to 'fix' some of the short comings.  There was reinforcements and eliminations of some OEM stuff.  The rear suspension was substituted with four-link and airbags.  The front steering changed to R&P.  The coil pockets were smoothed with air bags and yes, Granada spindles.  The upper control arm attachments were removed and replaced with custom attachments which yields more PC, more camber adjustability, 5° anti-dive, and more header clearance.

I also installed Granada style spindles on the Raunch Wagon.  I didn't want to make the complicated (expensive and time consuming) frame modifications.  So this got down and dirty.  I cut a tapered slice out of the upper control arms.  I took about 3/16" out of the front and 5/16" out of the rear.  I welded them back together and added a little reinforcement.  I was able to achieve the alignment specs that I wanted.  The Raunch Wagon is lowered, has large front and rear sway bars, four wheel disc, large 17" tires, and is driven everyday (usually hard).  You just got to know when and where to cobble.

I know a bunch of you are not going to like this but it is what I do.  I like restored cars but I just can't do it...I love cuttin' stuff up that no one else would justify a restoration.

[Tom S]

... I cut a tapered slice out of the upper control arms.  I took about 3/16" out of the front and 5/16" out of the rear.  I welded them back together and added a little reinforcement.  I was able to achieve the alignment specs that I wanted. ...

Ah! Gasman, glad to see that someone here did that. I was thinking that sectioning the upper a-arms would be a fairly simple way of getting to some good alignment specs with more castor.  But right offhand I was guessing that I'd want to cut out a bit more material than you did. However this would be down the road a bit after I correct some other things that I don't like, Also after I took some good measurements between all the pivot points so I could do some basic trigonometry to decide how much to cut out without getting too far out of whack.
I hadn't yet seen where anyone here had tried any mods to correct this Granada spindle alignment issue. Your post gives me hope for a simple solution. Thanks a bunch!
What did you end up with for alignment specs?  I think I saw your left camber at -1/8 degree and right at -1/4 degree but not sure if you ended up with 2.375 degree or 2.5 degree caster.  I guess one is a left & one a right.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6759.0;attach=20802;image
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6759.0;attach=20804;image

[gasman826]

without the control arm mod, the camber was attainable.  I couldn't get the caster I wanted.  If I was to do it again, I would take more from the rear to get more positive caster.  The next alignment, I will go for more zero camber with a very slight lean to negative.  With 255/75/17s front and rear and the sway bars, I really don't need the front tires digging in to make it turn.  I had a change on the interstate the other day to run it up to a little over a 100 (quit checking speedo after that).  Considering the aerodynamics of a brick, it rolled good and stable.

I am having an issue to the idler arm having some resistance.  When I installed the PS, everything was replaced with new or remanufacturered components.  There was always a very slight pull.  Then I traced it down to a very slight pull in the same direction of my last turn.  This lead me to the idler arm.  I installed new bushings so the rubber shouldn't be hard.  I tightened the bushings with the wheels pointing straight.  I've been driving with the hopes of it breaking in...6000 miles and little to no change.  In the old days, I remember after market kits with poly bushings and bearings to rebuild an idler arm.  So far, I haven't been able to find one of those kits.  Any ideas?

[Tom S]

In the old days, I remember after market kits with poly bushings and bearings to rebuild an idler arm.  So far, I haven't been able to find one of those kits.  Any ideas?

Sorry, can't help ya there. I don't remember seeing those after market idler arm rebuild kits & I'm definitely 'old days'.

Idler arm bearings?
What about those caster specs I ask about & how much more are you looking to get? With this Borgeson power box I'd like a whole lot of caster in order to get some road feel back.  In fact I think I'd be happy with a manual 58 box.  No chance of finding one up here. I'd need the 58 steering column, steering wheel & horn rim too, so ...

[gasman826]

The caster in the pictures is about the max on this car.  It drives really good so I'm not concerned about more positive caster adjustment.  I just like adjustability to be my choice not limited to the maximum adjustment.

..link to misc. idler arm bearings
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-misc-NOS-Idler-Arm-Bearing-Kits-50s-60s-GM-Ford-Mopar/113162397066?hash=item1a5901258a:g:GRAAAMXQatBSbuXz:sc:USPSPriority!49221!US!-1

[RICH MUISE]

When I had mine realigned, I told him to get as much caster as he possibly could.(mine has R&P) He was only able to get about +1 1/2 degrees, but that helped. I think he had originally set the caster to -1/2

[Hoosier Hurricane]

Gasman, I wonder how this topic got from door locks to steering, but I don't mind.  After reading your post, I remembered I had a box of NORS ball bearing idler arm kits that I bought at auction a long time ago.  I looked through it today, and I found four kits for  '54 to '60 Ford and Merc with PS.  I also found four '57-'58 lower ball joint repair kits.  I'd never heard of such a thing.  I also have a half dozen idler arm kits for '61-'64 Ford/Merc, PS.  Also about a dozen kits for '59-'60 Merc PS.  Those cars must have been terrible to drive.  John

[Tom S]

Back to door locks.

... Somebody swapped my door locks  side to side so I gotta move 'em to the opposite doors.

Well, nuts. Went to swap the locks around yesterday but found that, duh, ya can't swap the whole lock since they don't fit the hole in the opposite door unless you want 'em upside down. Guess I spaced out Jim's post, the first reply to this thread.
That's ok just swap their tail pieces. Problem was that I discovered that the right door lock was missing it's tail piece, it had already been put in the left door.
So now I can only lock the right door from outside.  Kinda sucks having to crawl over the big goofy box that fits over the auto trans floor shift & the  shifter. Twice if you wanna lock both doors.  Oh well.

[KYBlueOval]

Back to door locks.Well, nuts. Went to swap the locks around yesterday but found that, duh, ya can't swap the whole lock since they don't fit the hole in the opposite door unless you want 'em upside down. Guess I spaced out Jim's post, the first reply to this thread.
That's ok just swap their tail pieces. Problem was that I discovered that the right door lock was missing it's tail piece, it had already been put in the left door.
So now I can only lock the right door from outside.  Kinda sucks having to crawl over the big goofy box that fits over the auto trans floor shift & the  shifter. Twice if you wanna lock both doors.  Oh well.

Tom, as I read your posts, I wonder how some of the letters in a word become convoluted. For example,in the second sentence, the word "don't" appears as donaC t, with a small TM next to the C.....Trade Mark?
I only see these unusual lettering in your posts, no others. Am I the only one on the Forum that receives it this way?
Is it my computer?
Inquiring minds would like to know
John   

[Tom S]

John, I wonder if the others see it that way too? If so it may be because I've been writing most of my posts in my email composer & copying to here. I make a lot of changes to wording & mistakes when writing stuff sometimes so seems easier to look thru it before posting here.   
It looks ok to me but 2 or 3 times I did see the same thing when I opened here with what Firefox calls 'Open in a new private Window.'  Then wherever there are apostrophes  it showed up as you see it & I thought I needed to go back and edit my posts. It looks ok to me when I don't 'open in a private window'.
If others are seeing it that way too then I'd better just write it all in here. I doubt it's your computer.
How's this look now with these random apostrophes below & elsewhere?  All written here.
'57s
don't  'etc , etc'
Has anybody else see the weird lettering?
   

[Tom S]

KYBlueOval Jim, After I replied to you I went back to post #11 and edited it. Rewrote every word that I saw with an apostrophe.  How does that post look now?
Gotta hit the sack right now. 
EDIT: Missed a couple, did it again, should be ok now.
Sorry, Guys.