Self adjusting brakes

[SkylinerRon]

1961 was the first year Fords had self-adjusters. There were problems with them. Back in the day folks had their brakes adjusted every 10k miles and had a grease job every 1000miles (Ford also extended the grease job miles).                                                                                                         

Most knew to have the linings checked for wear or their mechanics routinely did it. With self adjusters the linings suddenly wore out and cut up the drums and doubled the cost of a brake job! Unhappy customers! I remember we had a single spring that could replace the self adjusters and we sold a lot of them.

Brake dust was a big problem too. I can remember guys in the brake shops using compressed air to clean up (asbestos dust everywhere!). Guess a bunch of those guys got lung cancer. Who knew!

I have converted all my old cars to manual adjust. My Starliner was converted in 1983, have only had to adjust it once since (20k miles).

Ron.

[Ford Blue blood]

It should be noted that all 58 Edsel's had 5 X 5" wheels.  Might explain the Ford omission for self adjusters?

[hiball3985]

Another problem with the first cars using them was rusted components, almost everyone I knew removed them and went to manual adjust. That also required changing the star wheel. The fine teeth on the self adjust star wheels are a pain to use a brake adjusting tool on.

[KULTULZ]

It should be noted that all 58 Edsel's had 5 X 5" wheels.  Might explain the Ford omission for self adjusters?

That's a good point. However the real problem is the actual brake carrier/anchor pin. The FORD carrier plates anchor pin was too short to accept the extra hardware. If you notice retrofit descriptions, they will refer to having to modify the pin and/or the retaining plate. There is also the concern the brake shoe web did not have holes where the self-adjusting hardware could attach. Many describe having to find later model shoes.

Now, a poster has been stated that his 58 PACER had self-adjusters. The PACER being based on the FORD platform, did EDSEL use MERC rear axle assemblies in the two FORD based EDSEL'S or was a MERC carrier plate used?

It is going to break my heart to have to buy an EDSEL MPC, but curiosity is killing me.

IMO, I would want to have the self-adjusters, especially with a front disc conversion. You would get use to the disc and forget about the rear drum not be able to keep up, leading to brake imbalance.

[KULTULZ]

Another problem with the first cars using them was rusted components, almost everyone I knew removed them and went to manual adjust. That also required changing the star wheel. The fine teeth on the self adjust star wheels are a pain to use a brake adjusting tool on.

You're correct.

But, drum brakes require more frequent service periods. It was usual to pull the drum and clean and lubricate. It was either that or frequent brake adjustments without the self-adjusters

[SkylinerRon]

Self adjusters do not change braking ability. Just less maintenance.  Back in the 50's people changed oil every 1000 miles along with a grease job.

Ford started the 6000 mile oil change and 30k grease job around 1961.

Under normal conditions 10k or more miles on a brake adjustment. My 57 has gone 20k miles with one minor adjustment only.

Ron.

[hiball3985]

IMO, I would want to have the self-adjusters, especially with a front disc conversion. You would get use to the disc and forget about the rear drum not be able to keep up, leading to brake imbalance.

Thats not really a problem. I have front disc and manually adjust rears. The only problem as the rears shoes wear and need adjusting is a lower peddle. Pressure is equalized evenly regardless of adjustment. That was one of the major advantages when cars went to hydraulic systems.

[KULTULZ]

Pressure is equalized evenly regardless of adjustment. That was one of the major advantages when cars went to hydraulic systems.

You are referring to split hydraulic?

That all depends actually on what PPV you chose on a retro-fit DISC/DRUM and the design/sizing of the disc parts chosen (incl MC).

If the shoes are not correctly adjusted to the drum, it will take a moment longer to apply and if way out of adjustment even longer. It will take longer for the rear circuit to energize, possibly just enough to slide through a red light sideways on a wet roadway.

[59meteor]

It should be noted that all 58 Edsel's had 5 X 5" wheels.  Might explain the Ford omission for self adjusters?

Are you sure about that? I know the Mercury based Corsair and Citations had 5 on 5" bolt circle in 58, but always thought that the Ford based Ranger and Pacer models used Ford 5 x 4 1/2" bolt circle. As for adjusting the drum brakes, I have my rear wheels off a couple of times a year anyhow, so if I notice that the brake pedal gets a bit low, or the park brake travel is getting excessive, I can adjust the brakes as needed.  Having recently retired from 23 years at a new car Toyota dealership, I can say that even with decades of technological advances and supposed "superior" :003:Japanese design, it was very common to find the rear brakes 15-20 "clicks" out of adjustment at the 12,000 km service. Usually a lot of brake dust build up as well, so I always like to knock the dust out and adjust the brakes at least twice a year on a daily driver car. That said, my wifes 2009 Corolla has 267,000 km (about 165,000 miles) on the original rear brakes, still have over 25% lining remaining, so obviously, I am not adjusting the brakes too tight. Realistically, how many of us are driving our 60+ year old hobby cars more than 5000 miles a year anyhow? I really don`t think keeping up on the brake adjustment is a real hardship.

[gasman826]

X2.  Self adjusters are for the no maintenance crowd to keep some brake pedal.  Self adjusters only work when the shoes are really out of adjustment.  Self adjusting instructions are to backup and brake hard.  If one is concerned about brake adjustment enough to follow the instructions, maybe it is time for a maintenance appointment.  I adjusted brakes at every oil change service.  If brakes mods are being considered, just upgrade to disc...they actually self adjust.

[KULTULZ]

You know, it would have made sense (IMO) to have used 5 X 5 on both platforms. Less inventory.

As for brakes, we are talking about everyday drivers, not hobby cars. If they are disc/drum, the everyday driver may not notice lessening braking ability and/or low pedal.

If the rear doesn't work as designed, the front will take the brunt of punishment and cost the big bucks more rapidly.

Brake and steering is where I take no chances or compromises. Your guys mileage may vary.

As for FORD, much late drum brake production is MAZDA or EURO and they (rear drum) are a PIA to keep functioning properly. I just had to order tools from the UK for my ESCAPE.

[SkylinerRon]

Actually using 5x5 on small Edsel would require 3 different drums as the Merc uses different brakes on front.

Who is talking about DD's? This is a 57 Ford site.

That time lapse would be in thousandths of a seconds or ten thousandths even.

Rear brakes are designed to lag the front so they don't lockup as easily with the weight transfer when braking.

Big bucks for a set of front pads? Last set cost me $15.

Ron.

[KULTULZ]

Actually using 5x5 on small Edsel would require 3 different drums as the Merc uses different brakes on front.

Who is talking about DD's? This is a 57 Ford site.

That time lapse would be in thousandths of a seconds or ten thousandths even.

Rear brakes are designed to lag the front so they don't lockup as easily with the weight transfer when braking.

Big bucks for a set of front pads? Last set cost me $15.

Ron.

Ron,

You are a class act, I will give you that. You should be anointed DRAMA QUEEN of this site.

See the rest of you around.

[Ford Blue blood]

Are you sure about that? I know the Mercury based Corsair and Citations had 5 on 5" bolt circle in 58, but always thought that the Ford based Ranger and Pacer models used Ford 5 x 4 1/2" bolt circle.

Yup, 100% positive.  I have a 58 Edsel Pacer, it has 5 X 5".

[Ranch]

When I upgraded my 58 Ranchero front brakes to Disc I figured I'd put self adjusters on the rear. 
Like noted the shoe guide plate had to be thinned some to make room for the end of the adjuster cable and springs to fit in to the recess for the springs.  The shoe guide plate had plenty of meat on it so thinning it the thickness of the end of the self adjuster was no problem.  and no, the star wheel does not line up with the access slot in the backing plate.  they are marked  R / L because of the left and right hand threads in order for the adjuster to work and I'm sure you noticed the manual has heavier teeth around it than the self adjuster star wheel.  I used Napa parts and everything seemed to fall right into place after the guide plate was thinned.

Self-Adjuster Repair Kit    ( for 11 inch drums )

       Left (Driver) side
   No. on Box   80691
   No. on parts bag inside box    3008119L      1119L
       Right (Passenger) side
   No. on Box   80692
   No. on parts bag inside box    3008119R      0819R

I know this is a Mustang brake layout but it is the same as my 58 Ranchero (not size wise)