Brake booster fit

[58villager]

hey guys pulled out my spare parts tredlevac unit and pedal support. measured the travel of booster pushrod at full pedal travel. booster pushrod travels about 3 " compared to typical ford dual pot m.c. travel at about 1.25" . (m.c. from 77 mustang ii) probably easiest p.b. conversion may be 57-58 ford man. brakes pedal and bolt on kit. didn't do mine that way,used availible parts (m ii booster, '90 f150 master) clearance to valve cover(with fe motor very tight (maybe 1/16")) clearance with engine swap ('90 f150 300-L6) plenty. also ,looked in some ford factory service manuals ,(overhaul m.c.) manuals make note that drum/drum m.c. has rcv in both outlet ports, disc/drum m.c. has rcv only in secondary (rear brake) port nearest front of vehicle. hope this helps.  also can help w/details how i modified linkage under dash using numbers from above pictured exploded view provided by kultulz. thanks gerald

[Ford Blue blood]

Alrighty then, got the pictures (kind of) of how I ended up with what I have.  I agree that the best way to upgrade the power brakes on the Edsels (get rid of the Treadlevac) is to go with a 57 - 58 Ford manual brake pedal and an after market kit for the 57 - 58 Fords.

[KULTULZ]

I have an original factory maintenance manual for the Edsel.  It only shows the Treadlvac as the power brake booster.

THANK YOU for that. Like I said, I learn something every day ... 

Need to see if there is a "blow apart" picture of the manual set up like the one you posted.  There are no dimensions listed for the hardware in the manual.  Might be in a parts book?  The brakes on all four corners are self adjusting.

Yes, all the detail will be in the 1958 EDSEL PARTS MANUAL. EDSEL CATALOGING was separate from FORD or LINC or MERC during that period.

Now I am wondering if EDSEL hung MERC foundation brakes as MERC released self-adjusters in 1957. Your wheels are 15X5 (MERC) rather that 15X4.5 (FORD)?

[KULTULZ]

Alrighty then, got the pictures (kind of) of how I ended up with what I have.  I agree that the best way to upgrade the power brakes on the Edsels (get rid of the Treadlevac) is to go with a 57 - 58 Ford manual brake pedal and an after market kit for the 57 - 58 Fords.

Again, appreciated ...

Very detail orientated. Now does that also show the MTG PLATE you fabricated? You decided to stay with a SGL RSVR MC?

[KULTULZ]

hey guys pulled out my spare parts tredlevac unit and pedal support. measured the travel of booster pushrod at full pedal travel. booster pushrod travels about 3 " compared to typical ford dual pot m.c. travel at about 1.25" . (m.c. from 77 mustang ii) probably easiest p.b. conversion may be 57-58 ford man. brakes pedal and bolt on kit. didn't do mine that way,used availible parts (m ii booster, '90 f150 master) clearance to valve cover(with fe motor very tight (maybe 1/16")) clearance with engine swap ('90 f150 300-L6) plenty. also ,looked in some ford factory service manuals ,(overhaul m.c.) manuals make note that drum/drum m.c. has rcv in both outlet ports, disc/drum m.c. has rcv only in secondary (rear brake) port nearest front of vehicle. hope this helps.  also can help w/details how i modified linkage under dash using numbers from above pictured exploded view provided by kultulz. thanks gerald

IMO - The only safe way to rid FORD EDSEL of the TREADLE-VAC is to revert to OEM 1957/58 brake linkage(s).

About the MC as to whether DISC/DRUM or DRUM/DRUM conversion, FORD deleted the RPV(s) during the 1971 model run and went to wheel cylinder cup expanders. If one is going to a DUAL RSVR MC, a model pre-1971 is needed to have the RPV's included in the system (and this will have to be OEM as replacements usually do not include RPV's).

I would also consider using the SWIFT-SURE power assist as if keeping four-wheel drum, the brakes are self energizing and also being self-adjusting along with using QUALITY service brake parts, should give one a safe car.

Trying to use the OEM TREADLE-VAC linkage to use a later booster style will not work due to geometry.

EDIT - The above statement should have been marked IMO as I have no idea if it is correct or not.

What is puzzling me the most is these so-called DISC BRAKE CONVERSION VENDORS selling a vacuum booster setup to replace the OEM TREADLE-VAC units and not giving info as to whether the linkage(s) need to be modified.

[Ford Blue blood]

Yes the wheels are 5 X 5 14''.  The plate in the photo is what I made to mount the new 7' dual diaphragm to the Treadlevac mount.  I did not get any pictures of the push rod.  It is simply an adjustable length push rod that has the correct diameter for the pin that connects to the levers on the pedal.  The adapter plate was simply copied from the Treadlevac mount, used a hole saw to make the big hole and careful layout to get all the mount holes square.

I elected to stay with a single reservoir because they work well and I did not put disc on the car.  The master is a 62 Thunderbird, used it because they were 4 wheel drum and worked very well.

I agree after looking and pondering that the best way to rid the Treadlevac is to replace the brake pedal with a 58 - 58 Ford manual.  Changing the pedals eliminate the "under dash" geometry that is built in for the booster application.  The after market kits for the Ford manual upgrade have the geometry built into the new mount that comes in the kit.  It also raises the 8" booster up and away from the valve cover.  I used one of those on the Ranchero and have great brakes.

[KULTULZ]

Very impressive. You have presently a 58 EDSEL or had previously?

I'm sorry, I did not ask a question clearly. By wheel size I meant the bolting size/pattern. Are the wheel bolting pattern 5 X 4.5" (FORD pattern) or 5 X 5" (MERC pattern) as EDSEL used self-adjusters and I would imagine FORD used the MERC wheel ends to save money. Is the rear axle housing a 9" FORD or DANA? (I really need to source an EDSEL PARTS MANUAL).

I appreciate your willing to share info and am impressed by your mechanical abilities.

And I fully understand your using the SGL RSVR MC.

[58villager]

hey guys 58 edsel ranger/pacer cars used 5 on 5" bolt pattern, 58 station wagons used 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. go fiqure!! BTW  looking more at spare/extra parts, noticed my 58 bermuda s.w. (build date june '57) has a "swift sure" brake pedal pad .2 other pedal assms have plain pads. makes you wonder just what was ford doing. also rear axles were all 9" from what i've seen.

[KULTULZ]

hey guys 58 edsel ranger/pacer cars used 5 on 5" bolt pattern, 58 station wagons used 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. go fiqure!! BTW  looking more at spare/extra parts, noticed my 58 bermuda s.w. (build date june '57) has a "swift sure" brake pedal pad .2 other pedal assms have plain pads. makes you wonder just what was ford doing. also rear axles were all 9" from what i've seen.

All three cars have power brakes and just one with a SWIFT-SURE pedal pad? Interesting.

It may be that FORD named it's PB from 1954-1959 as SWIFT-SURE. This included the early MERC w TREADLE-VAC. Or the car was assembled incorrectly (EDSEL ASSY had problems) or it is a service replacement somewhere along its' service history.

Just conjecture. I need to find an EDSEL PARTS CATALOG.

Keep us up with your progress and THANX for the update. You have how many EDSEL's?

[Ford Blue blood]

Yes I have a 1958 Edsel Pacer 2dr. ht.  Build date of August 17th in the Louisville plant.  The wheels are 5 X 5.  I suspect many early build date Edsels have a mix-mash of parts as they were built on Ford assembly lines.  They were famous for having many assembly issue that were handed to the dealers to fix.  Mine had "three factory installed" issues on the drivers side.  Corrected one and left the other two for historical reasons.  The corrected one was the front screw that holds the flipper to the roof rail was never drilled into the roof, it was wedged in side was and never allowed the flipper to work properly.  I left the scars on the flipper again for historical reasons. The two remaining are the lack of a small bumper on the bottom of the door jam and the valve cover on the left side of the engine.  It has no E400 stamp on it but has the correct plug wire loom spotted on it.

[KULTULZ]

... valve cover on the left side of the engine.  It has no E400 stamp on it but has the correct plug wire loom spotted on it.

Now that's interesting. Is the E-400 raised stamping or is it just a decal?

[59meteor]

I have seen Edsel valve covers, and they always were stamped with the E400 & E475 identification. I have always thought that the Ford based Edsel Ranger and Pacers used the 5 x 4 1/2" Ford wheel stud pattern,and the Mercury based Corsair and Citation used the 5" pattern, is that not the case?  I have a 58 Edsel 9" rearend, that I had narrowed a bit, and installed in my 59. When I bought the rearend years ago, I didn`t notice that it had the larger 5" bolt pattern, and was also wider than a 57-9 Ford car rear.

[58villager]

hey guys yep ,3 edsel stationwagons,all with tredlevac units, one built june'57 (san jose plant),one built august '57,one built dec '57 (both louisville plant) san jose car has swiftsure pedal pad,also doors(all 4) have trim holes for ford trim holes filled with brass. don't know if ford /wagons used 11"x 3" front brakes as well . BTW didn;t mean to hijack the site with edsel stuff, but edsel info hard to come by!! also, any one have supplier info for s.w. door,tailgate seals and woodgrain rail attaching hardware thanks,gerald

[KULTULZ]

I have seen Edsel valve covers, and they always were stamped with the E400 & E475 identification.

That's what I am trying to ascertain, whether the ID was stamped (as were FORD-MERC-BIRD) and was painted or were they FE "Baldies' and painted or decal-ed. I have seen repro decals.

I have always thought that the Ford based Edsel Ranger and Pacers used the 5 x 4 1/2" Ford wheel stud pattern,and the Mercury based Corsair and Citation used the 5" pattern, is that not the case?  I have a 58 Edsel 9" rearend, that I had narrowed a bit, and installed in my 59. When I bought the rearend years ago, I didn`t notice that it had the larger 5" bolt pattern, and was also wider than a 57-9 Ford car rear.

That's what I thought also but read this -

hey guys 58 edsel ranger/pacer cars used 5 on 5" bolt pattern, 58 station wagons used 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. go fiqure!! BTW  looking more at spare/extra parts, noticed my 58 bermuda s.w. (build date june '57) has a "swift sure" brake pedal pad .2 other pedal assms have plain pads. makes you wonder just what was ford doing. also rear axles were all 9" from what i've seen.

I found a reference on the net (so it has to be true) confirming this but didn't have enough smarts to save it.

As for hsng width, could the rear have come from a MERC based EDSEL?

I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy an EDSEL PARTS CATALOG

[KULTULZ]

hey guys yep ,3 edsel stationwagons,all with tredlevac units, one built june'57 (san jose plant),one built august '57,one built dec '57 (both louisville plant) san jose car has swiftsure pedal pad,also doors(all 4) have trim holes for ford trim holes filled with brass. don't know if ford /wagons used 11"x 3" front brakes as well .

BTW didn;t mean to hijack the site with edsel stuff, but edsel info hard to come by!! also, any one have supplier info for s.w. door,tailgate seals and woodgrain rail attaching hardware thanks,gerald

Different ASSY PLANTS might also explain the pedal difference.

I personally don't mind HI-JACKING (within reason) but usually the overseers dislike it. I haven't seen any flack yet.

Usually when a subject changes within a thread much information is lost - (IMO).

I too want to learn more about EDSEL but info is limited to restorers mainly.

OH! The info you are seeking is most likely to be found in the EDSEL PARTS CATALOG, unless you find comparable hardware through a vendor such as AUVECO (body supply).

Do you have this reference - https://www.edsel.com/