Rack & Pinion Steering for '57 Ranchero

[LtDan]

I have a question for someone that has experience with th"57 Ford and a newer Ford Crown Vic, how hard would it be to take the power R&P steering system from a 2008, or newer Crown Vic and bolt into a '57 Ford...  would this be more trouble than it is worth?  The picture is a newer Crown Vic steering. 

[Ford Blue blood]

Looks like a front steer, 57s are rear.  If you want a rear steer R&P look at the Focus and Taurus racks.  But....in my humble opinion the Borgeson power box (bolts into a 57) is the way to go.

[hogwagon]

Borgenson had a booth at the NSRA event in Pueblo Co last weekend with a sample of the convertion steering box.Nice work with output shaft resplined to our application and not a lot of column mods . We thought about a rack but this is a lot simpler and cost effective for our needs.

[TexasFordGuy]

Has anyone here actually drive both types of power steering conversions, that can give a somewhat unbiased options of the handling for both options?

[RICH MUISE]

Has anyone here actually drive both types of power steering conversions, that can give a somewhat unbiased options of the handling for both options?

That would be a really interesting input. How long has the Borgeson box been available? It's definetly from a supplier with a great reputation...unlike some of the other conversions available. I've already made my decision and purchase of the rack and pinion setup..from yellowagon (John Starks) but I'd still be interested in the comparison. (My unit is still in the box, but looks great, and John's service has been top notch). Also I'd like to see a comparison of the lock to lock difference on all the set-ups. Stock (is '58 same lock to lock?), borgeson and the rack and pinion.
Jon..the Borgeson box may be cheaper, but as far as that goes keep in mind all the components that the rack system replaces other than the box, that won't have to be replaced as you maybe would have to with a box replacement. Also the rack gives more room for exhaust, and definetly has that cool factor...but as I said, it would be really interesting to get a performance evaluation from someone who has driven both as Texas Ford Guy requested.

[dgasman]

 The Borgeson box has been out for about 10 months . I installed one on my wagon and it was a very easy install and it fits . The box comes with a new pitman arm and bolts. The box is about the same size as the stock box . I have not driven it yet because of my surgery and sill wont be able to drive it for about another 4 months

[shopratwoody]

dgasman,
That box looks like the ticket when I need one. Probably last a lot longer that a rack.

[TexasFordGuy]

The thing I would like to know is if either upgrades actually take away any of the rudeness that is caused by having the the components behind the wheels, and if so which is the better handling of the two.

[TexasFordGuy]

Very interesting article, though it is about Mustangs, about using steering box conversions vs a rack and pinion upgrade.  I know that they do have a bias due to the fact that they are selling racks, but their case makes pretty good sense. http://www.steeroids.com/html/steering_box_facts.html

From Steeroids steering box facts

Why aren't there steering box conversion kits?

There is a lot of buzz about steering box versus rack and pinion. You can search for kits that convert a rack & pinion car to a steering box and you won?t find such a kit. Unbelievable as it sounds companies are introducing ?new? steering box replacements like the Delphi 600-series power steering box. This  is the equivalent to introducing ?new? flint lock rifles and claiming they are some how better than a cartridge fed rifle, it just is not true. If you like old stuff there is nothing wrong with a flint lock, or for that matter a steering box, but beware of an argument that old is better. Let?s examine the dear old steering box and see what the facts are.

Steering Feel

This is a subjective area of discussion in talking about handling, but a very important topic. Modern vehicles have significantly better ?feel? than those manufactured in the ?60?s through the ?80?s. It is not about wear either, it?s about design. If you just look at the number of parts in the linkage between the steering wheel in your hand and the front wheels there is a major difference in opportunity for slop, friction and flex between a modern rack and pinion design and an old steering box design.

On a steering box design the path to the wheels starts with the box itself which has internal gear lash (play). Next the pitman arm with a joint linking it to a center link (track rod) which as two joints for each inner tire rod. In addition to this the center link has a pivot point called an idler arm for stabilizing the end, and finally the tie rod end. Altogether seven separate connections until you are actually turning the wheel, not including the gear lash in the steering box and the clearance for the re-circulating ball bearings inside the box.

Contrast this to a rack and pinion which has gear lash as well, but no re-circulating ball bearings, and has only two joints for the tie rod ends, and two inner tie rod joints. You can see how even in a new setup there are three more points to add play, and friction, and flexing to the feel. This linkage path is integral to another element that is inherent to both designs; on center feel.

On Center Feel

This is the most noticeable difference between steering box steering and rack & pinion steering. It can be best described by the response you receive while cruising with the wheel ?on center?. The vehicle moves when you steer without lag or play. Even a new steering box with new steering parts will have lag. That is because of the extra joints for motion in the system as described in the Steering Feel Section. In addition to this it is very difficult to ?back drive? a worm and segment gear found in a steering box. Back drive is when the front tires try to drive the steering wheel back to the center position. The incline of the worm gear ( a spiral shaped gear) introduces a lot of friction that must be overcome by the natural tendency of the steering geometry to self center. The result is a vague and drifty with no center feel.

Rack and pinions have a different design with a horizontal ?rack? of gear teeth that are meshed with a pinion gear. This is a much easier physical arrangement to back drive since there is no steep incline to drive against. It is also directly driving the steering with the tie rods with no additional linkage to flex. These facts plus only four steering joints to add friction make the steering try to center itself. This gives the driver a solid, crisp on center feel that is ready to accept steering wheel inputs.

Corvette Owners With Factory Power Steering: In addition to these facts your Vette has a power steering servo valve at the end of the pitman arm. This is not like most steering box equipped cars which have the power boost built into the box. On the Corvette the pitman arm has a joint that moves as you turn the wheel. The force of turning the wheel causes a force sensor to activate the hydraulic ram in the direction you steer, and applies power boost to the to the steering. Every control system has ?dead band?, an area where no control boost is applied. Some dead band is necessary, but this dead band outside the box when added to the natural poor back drive of a steering box makes the on center position vague with a lot of steering wheel ?sawing? to keep the car pointed straight. This only gets worse with age as the joints wear.

Steering Feedback

All of the previous discussion about feel and on center feel is the basis to understand steering feedback. From the basic design limitations of a steering box it is easy to explain why a car with this system has very imprecise feedback to the driver. All the force necessary for you to feel what the car is doing is absorbed in rotary joints and linkage needed to make the system work. If you add wear on those joints you have a steering system that is ambiguous to drive, it is not ?telling? you what you really need to know. This is especially true if you are cornering hard up to the limit of available traction. The last thing you want when the tires are howling is to have no clue what the front end is doing.

Feedback is also affected by the amount of boost your power steering has, if so equipped. This is why a few drivers prefer manual steering over power, but that does not need to be the case. A properly designed power steering system is just as good if not better that a manual system. For one thing fatigue is a factor. That is why most race cars have power assisted steering. Make sure you consider the amount of boost you will get if you are converting. There are ways to limit this with certain pumps. It is well worth the effort to have a car that handles well at speed and that you can easily maneuver to park with the added friction of wide tires, so don?t dismiss the power steering option.

[Ford Blue blood]

After reading the article I feel it is a sales job for his R & P system.  While all he says has validity (some more, some less) he is talking out the side of his mouth.  There are kits to do the swap.  The old worm and sector been around for years, worked well for years, not the best system but it did the job.  For all of his points to be valid (100%) the rest of the suspension system will need serious updating as well!

The geometry and components are no where near the same as what is available today nor is the system as tight as todays systems are.  Suspension systems are designed as a whole, not one part at a time.  All the individual components are matched to all the other components in the system and work in concert with each other to give the "feel, feed back and centering" he is talking about.  Changing one component of the current system (57 Ford for example) is not going to give the same driving characteristics as the donor vehicle enjoyed.

Now having said all of that, I installed a "Butches Rod Shop" rack kit in a friend's 50 Chevy many years ago.  I used the kit and a rack, power steering pump and lines from a mid 80s Grand Prix.  The kit was well designed, installed with no modifications and worked well.  Did the car drive like an 80 Grand Prix, no, it drove like a 50 Chevy except touchier.  The turning radius was slightly reduced and the straight down the road feel took much getting used to.  I under drove the pump trying to get rid of a "twitch".  He loved the in town ease of manuevering but we messed with toe-in and alignment for weeks to get the "twitch" out of the thing.  Finally settled on 3/16" toe out, as much caster as could be gotten out of that old king pin system (1.5 +) and zero camber to make it feel right to him.

So....in my humble opinion.....the rack, while good, has no advantage over a later model box, assisted or not.

[TexasFordGuy]

Sounds like 57fordsforever need to setup a test lab and have the manufactures shoot this out 

[RICH MUISE]

 lot of good points to consider on both sides. The Lincoln Mark viii's had a setup that would automatically adjust the steering response according to the highway speed. That provided a car with manuverability in the parking lots without the over-touchyness at high speeds. Probably much too complicated to adapt to the '57 R & P systems. As Bill said, though you can't expect to replace one component of a system and get a radically improved setup....steering is just one component of handling. As for me, I'm hoping to just improve on parking lot manuverability without it being too touchy at high speeds...too touchy meaning, in my case, no more touchy than a late model car. I'm expecting it to be different and will be taking some gettin use to..but that's the whole point isn't it?
Actually, ..lol..it's been so long since I've actually driven my '57, no matter what it drives like when I get it back on the road will  be something I'm not "use to".
Has anyone that has done the R & P conversion on their '57 Ford experienced the same problems Bill brought up with the '50 Chevy?
I'll ask again..does anybody know if the new boxes, such as the Borgensen, have a quicker lock-to-lock than the stock boxes?  Rich

[shopratwoody]

TFG & FBB.
That's ome interesting stuff, thanks for posting that.

[canadian_ranchero]

the information i have say the new boxes are a 16 to 1 ratio with about 3 1/2 turns lock to lock[my ranchero is about 5 turns]

[KidKourier]

     I've installed Johns R & P steering on my '57 and it's a bolt in kit liked advertised,it's also a very well built  and I've put over 1500 miles on it! Ford blue Bloods 2nd paragraph describes it exactly--- does it drive like a new Mustang?--No! Did it lose some turning radius?--Yes (curb to curb on a 2-lane-no, it's a 3 pointer on a 4 lane yes of course). Is it twitchy--Yes-I'm constantly turning the steering wheel right and left a few degrees to keep the steering wheel centered!(I'm running the stock Ford powersteering pump)Would a 1 1/4"front sway bar help it? Would I do it again---Noo(my own personal opinion)for the money spent--R&P kit,special hoses,alignment,etc.,I'd just rebuild the entire frontend and add power disc brakes and any left over money would go back into the car else where! Would someone else's experience be different? possibly? But I followed the instructions by the numbers and can't find anything in the assembly wrong and had a couple of frontend experts check it out and they both gave it a thumbs-up.Not to be negative on this only informative,so anyone with a different experience chime-in,always willing to learn! KID