4.6 being installed now

[ROKuberski]

Rich/Al/Jon,

I had a great time on visiting Saturday afternoon.

Thinking about the engine mount, I think I can fabricate a cap to sit over the existing mount made out of steel the same thickness as the original mount.  This would be an upside down side "U" shape with a slotted hole for the mounting bolt to go through.  I think that's why Ford used a slotted hole in the original, so the angled bolt could be dropped down through the slot.  The new cap would be welded to the existing mount.  I made a crude sketch on the attached photo.  If you guys think this will work, I will make some for all of us.  I will need some exact measurements on the old mount, but that can wait.  I will make an accurate drawing but will need help with accurate dimensions.

Rich

[57dohc]

Rich;
I was thinking about doing the same thing after our meeting on Saturday.  Looking at the Mustang mounts and their teardrop shaped bolt opening to accomodate the angle change when the engine is lifted out.  The plate welded on top of the mount would not significantly change the height of the engine and sure prevent the drivetrain from sliding forward out of the slots I have cut in the existing motor mounts to the crossmember.  The transmission crossmember/mount on the manual transmission I will be using has already had a history of cracked tailshaft housings and extra movement would make the problem worse.
I really enjoyed our meeting and look forward working out these problems.  If you need help lifting off the front clip etc., I will be glad to give you a hand.  I'm sure I can talk Marty into helping as well!  Thanks! Al

[RICH MUISE]

I think the plate idea is good...as you said, the thickness of the plate isn't going to affect engine height enough to be of concern. I had planned on just welding a 1/8 plate to the top of the oem's.
I can get accurate dimensions of the oem mounting bracket, and Al can verify them to hopefully confirm the same sizes. The problem we'll have at this point is determining where the slot should be, front to back, and keeping in mind the Mustang motor mounts studs are not the same on each side, so the slots will have to be different locations heightwise. The Mustang block Al is using probably has more latitude front to back than the Mark viii's because of the intake. What I'm saying is a slot location on your proposed brackets that works for Al may not work for us...but not the inverse. The studs on the Mustang mounts are quite long also, so that slot would have to be very long....of course we could probably shorten the Mustang studs a bit to help. One thing I would have liked to look at more than I did was whether or not we can get to the 3 bolts that hold the mounts to the engine when it is sitting in the car. If we can, then all we need is a hole to mount the motor mounts loosely in before dropping the engine onto them.

[62galxe]

Speaking of the lincolns weird throttle body location. Here is a solution one of slick 60s members came up with. Theres piks on page 10,11,12.
http://www.slick60s.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10877&hilit=intake&start=180

[hogwagon]

Rich and/or Al if you find a piece of channel I can slot it on a mill at work. Get me some numbers there may be something to cut up at the shop. Al I found the radiator we took out if you want to use it as a setup tool. Jon

[RICH MUISE]

Speaking of the lincolns weird throttle body location. Here is a solution one of slick 60s members came up with. Theres piks on page 10,11,12.
http://www.slick60s.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=10877&hilit=intake&start=180

Thanks for posting..the intake adapter is basically what the '56 guy in Pueblo did, but the thread you linked has some great how-to pics, as well as some great pics of other details. The COP system he is using I was going to look into as far as whether or not it can be used with a stock computer. I want to do what ever it takes to run the car with an oem computer.I like the clean look of the no plug wires.
Jon...I believe Rich was talking about having some heavy gage sheetmetal formed into the u shape the size we would need rather than channel. LOL..spent 15 years running a Bridgeport..sure wish I had one now. Making decent slots in stuff is one of the pain in the ass things to do without a mill. Thanks for your offer.
Jury duty yesterday and today

[ROKuberski]

Rich and/or Al if you find a piece of channel I can slot it on a mill at work. Get me some numbers there may be something to cut up at the shop. Al I found the radiator we took out if you want to use it as a setup tool. Jon

Jon,

I have access to an "Iron Man" and can punch the slotted holes.  I was just going to make a mandrel the size of the motor mount pad and bend some flat plate around it.  If locating the slotted hole is too much trouble, that can be done later, but I think the motor mount cap can be moved fore and aft for an adjustment then welded in place.  We shall see.

It may even be that Rich's suggestion to just use a piece of flat plate and weld it in position would work too.  Judging from the picture I took at Al's, the weight of the engine will still mostly be directly over the existing pad.  I was thinking that by bending the cap it would be stronger. 

Rich

[RICH MUISE]

I came up with an even simpler solution this afternoon. BTW, rain in the forecast for today and tommorrow, so I get to work on my '57 for a few days...YEAH.
Anyway, I'm still not convinced the verticle slot is going to work, so I thought of this....a 1/8" plate the size of the top area of the oem bracket with a stud clearance hole and one leg bent down about 1/2" to catch the back side of the oem bracket. Think of the plate as a big washer that goes between the Mustang mount and the oem mounting bracket. Just keep the nut and lockwashers loose enough to allow that 1/2 leg to get into position, and tighten 'er down! That leg, along with the tranny mount should keep any forward movement from happening. I can sketch and scan it if I'm not making sense here. no welding, no slotting, just a simple single brake and one hole.
I'm on my way back to the garage to pull the tranny crossmember out so I can get the block and tranny in the position I want.

[RICH MUISE]

Tiny steps at a time I guess...I slid the engine mock-up forward and deepened the slots I had in the oem bracket so I could gain another inch backwards. The plane of the bellhousing was @ 5" from the firewall, and I want to get it to 4" so I will have room for the throttle body/intake up top, and clear the Rack and pinion down below.
I did get my tranny crossmember removed so I could push the mock-up unit back that 1", but I of course ran into another problem. The Continental front sump oil pan has an out-of-square configuration on the back side of the deep portion, putting it about an inch closer to the engine crossmember on the driver's side than the passenger side. Of couse I was looking previously at the passenger side so I thought I had plenty of clearance to go back..but I could only go back 1/2" instaed of the full inch I wanted. Hmmm   I really want that other 1/2", so I guess I'll pull the oil pan and see if the inside baffles and stuff will let me do some cutting and welding.

[RICH MUISE]

decided to rework the oil pan for an additional 1/2" push back. got it started, but I'll probably pull the baffle out tommorrow so I can get in there and clean up the burrs and oil deposits before I weld..don't want loose metal stuff in there!

[RICH MUISE]

well, sheeeet..just realized I'm putting the cart before the horse. I never checked to see where the oil pick up tube will be located before I started cutting. I may be ok..or I may be looking for another oil pan.
Does anyone with a front sump oil pan remember how close it is to the area I'm reworking?
Edit...cancel that..just went out and looked at the pick up tube and there's no way it's anywhere  near the reworked area. LOL ..."I just love it when a plan comes together"

[RICH MUISE]

I went back and checked the thread that Claiborn and Canadian Ranchero were doing. I thought I had remembered him saying he thought about modifying the pan with a hammer..anyway..this confirms the issue I had with the oil pan and the R & P..although his is the stock oem power steering.
quote from Claborn:..."The main fitment problem is the power steering ram and components. After shortening the swingarm stud and fitting the engine as far to the rear as possible, there is still insufficient clearance between the power ram and the front of the bell housing. We could get more rearward movement if we modified the oil pan with a hammer but; our solution is to reposition the Ram/Idler Arm bracket about 3/8 of an inch forward of the stock position on the frame rail. It's a very, very tight fit."

Before I get too deep into the welding, I'm just gonna do a few tacks to hold it as it clamped now, then check the fitment to see if it gives me enough room for the R&P. This is also gonna help with cooling fan room. I also noted that Claborn side the EGR valve was the closest thing to the firewall..I need to check where that is..my guess is it's one of those gizmos attached to the throttle body

[57dohc]

Rich;
I sure hope I won't have to go through all this!  I was aware of the pan offset but was hoping clearance would be adequate with the transmission I am using.  It made me realize that I should get a steering system mocked up before the final fitment of the engine/transmission mounts.  By the way, I do have an extra oil pan if you make too many cuts!
Good thinking on the motor mounts:  I had thought about the same thing but seem to remember the back edge of the frame  mounting plates does not allow much of an edge to work with.   I was even thinking of a plate where detents could be fabricated to slip in the orginal mounting holes and prevent forward movement when tighten down.  Al

[RICH MUISE]

Al....'morning to ya! I did it just to make sure I wouldn't have to go back and do it later. I was wanting as much room up front for the cooling fans, and since that can't be determined for sure how much space I need or have until the clip back on..and that's a long way from now. As soon as I can snag someone to help me lift the awkward R&P stuff back into position, I'll know if it now clears the bellhousing, or if it was even necessary for that piece of the puzzle. The mock up unit I'm using of course doesn't have the crankcase pulley on it, or even a timing chain cover, so I couldn't reference that 8 1/4 dimension you came up with. Where is the plane of your bellhousing sit from the firewall? I just put a tape measure on the verticle part of the wall just above the tranny tunnel and eyeballed the plane of the bellhousing. With the oil pan alteration, I did get mine moved back to the 4" dim. I was shooting for with an 1/8" clearance oil pan to engine crossmember. So now I can pull it out and get it welded up.
After I posted my suggestion of the one legged plate, I noticed that the right oem engine mounting bracket was not as tall as the left side, leaving not a whole lot to grab onto as you said. Your idea of something fitting into the existing slots should work just fine...good thinking.

[RICH MUISE]

With a 1/2" mod to the oil pan, I now have about 5/8-3/4 (eyeballing) of clearance between the R&P and the bellhousing (with no cover plate). I guess it would have been ok without the pan mod, but may have eventually rubbed/damaged the boot on the rack. I feel better about where it sits now. I should have 1/2 clearance to the firewall at the throttle body even if I don't mod that, 1/4" or so front sump oil pan to crossmember, and the mentioned clearance at the rack.
Now on to the tranny crossmember.
I'll weld up the oil pan later..need to do some maintenance on my welder.
btw...with rlibew's Unisteer rack problem in mind...I have about 1" clearance over the STFabrications rack to the oil pan.