4.6 being installed now

[hiball3985]

Exhaust Gas Recirculation I believe. I'm no help sorry, I don't deal with engines with all the electronic gizmos but from what I have seen on other peoples any slightest glitch in any of the system throws them into a tail spin  . Will this engine require O2 sensors in the exhaust?

[RICH MUISE]

Yes on the o2 sensors. That shouldn't be a problem. The o2 sensors could be eliminated, but that would require reprograming of the computer, which I don't want to do. The offroad exhaust pipes readily available for Mustangs , that I'm planning on using, has the 02 sensor bungs in them. The Ron Francis efi kit includes wiring for those as well as all the other original sensors. I'm assuming it's gonna be the same for the egr valve and sensor.....will require reprograming if I eliminate them.

[RICH MUISE]

driveshaft info: lots of good news, and a little bad news. This info pertains to MY install...4r70w tranny, the Custom's short wheelbase, and the engine pushed back a tad more than some other guys have done.... Other trannys or the Fairlane wheelbase may be different. The one piece aluminum driveshaft out of the '95 Mark viii is almost a perfect fit in my car. This goes along with what Claiborn had reported on his install into his wagon. The pic shows the driveshaft just pushed into the oem differential yoke and held in place with 2x4's, but you can see the length. Engagement looks good to me..about 4", and 3/4 or so shy of going to a full bottoming in the tranny. That's most of the good news, as well as the Mark viii's 1 1/16 bearing caps on the u-joint being the same diameter as the '57's differential yoke. However, the stock Mark viii u joints have a 3 5/8 length to the legs, and the '57 differential needs a 3 1/4 length to nest in the centering stops. The rest of the good news is this is not a problem. My local o'reilly's had IN STOCK a universal with those different leg lengths. The caps were a different ouside diameter, so I ended up using the caps from the Mark viii oem type ujoint I had previously purchased. 2 new ones to make one, but it'll get me the driveshaft installed for a whole lot fewer bucks than the machining and rebalance. The special ujoint to adapt the Mviii driveshaft to the '57 yoke is Precision (Federal Mogul)part no. 449. Made in the USA, 24 bucks.
Sometime in the near future, I'll do a summary of what I've done so far, and what I used to get there.

[hiball3985]

Yes on the o2 sensors. That shouldn't be a problem. The o2 sensors could be eliminated, but that would require reprograming of the computer, which I don't want to do. The offroad exhaust pipes readily available for Mustangs , that I'm planning on using, has the 02 sensor bungs in them. The Ron Francis efi kit includes wiring for those as well as all the other original sensors. I'm assuming it's gonna be the same for the egr valve and sensor.....will require reprograming if I eliminate them.

Thats why I asked, I think if you remove the EGR it's going to change the O2 that the computer wants to see. Reprogramming will more then likely be needed.

[RICH MUISE]

You're probably right. I think I'll call the detail zone/Ron Francis tommorrow and find out for sure. The easy fix for this were my car in the prepaint stage would be just to add a little cavity to the firewall...I've only got a 1/4" or so issue with it. For Al (57dohc) or cyclone, this will be a non issue because they've got the supercharged 4.6 version, and the intake doesn't protrude in the back like the EFI does.

[hiball3985]

Just my opinion but I think doing the clearance would be the safest and cause the least headaches in the long run. I don't know what is required to remove the EGR, but it may require a little more clearance for wiggle room if you need to replace it in the future. I should have familiarized myself with these engines when the wifes car had one, luckily it went 174,000 miles without putting a wrench on it and it still ran great, the trans went..

Maybe there is an EGR off another model car that is a different configuration?

[Tom S]

Just my opinion but I think doing the clearance would be the safest and cause the least headaches in the long run. I don't know what is required to remove the EGR, but it may require a little more clearance for wiggle room if you need to replace it in the future.

I tend to agree since I wouldn't want to mess the reprograming stuff.
Rich, I know you don't want to but you might consider cutting a hole in the firewall & inserting/bolting/screwing in some sort of a shallow box section thing.  Only just enough that you need for room.  Depends on what is behind the firewall in that area.
You may think I'm nuts but I keep thinking of using something like this with a flange that covers the outside of the cut.  Stainless of course.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Bread-Loaf-Pan-8-5-4-5-New-/121060397473?pt=Bakeware&hash=item1c2fc311a1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Square-Cake-Brownie-Pan-7-5-inch-7-5-inch-New-/310583274184?pt=Bakeware&hash=item485034aac8
                 

[RICH MUISE]

Great idea with using a premade pan of some sort to add the clearance pocket...you know how I love the "thinking outside of the box" stuff. I'll consider that with other options.I'll try to get a pic of the area affected though..it's right on the edge of the tranny tunnel near the top. This egr valve is a kind of flying saucer shape, so the clearance cut would be small. Your pan idea wouldn't work exacly as such because of the odd shape the cut would end up, but I could still make some kind of a filler that could be attached by means other than welding...so thanks for that general idea.
I had posted some pics earlier this year of a '56 with a 4.6 dohc, where the owner had actually made an adapter that relocated the entire throttle body inlet..maybe for the same reason I'm running into. I went back to find a pic of his setup, and I'm not sure what he's got going on. It looks like the egr valve isn't there, or he is using a much smaller valve from another vehicle...another option to look into.
In the pic I'm posting, the notch would be the smaller shape inside the drawn circle.

[RICH MUISE]

Went back and looked at Claiborn's pic album...The flying saucer shaped thing is what I've been calling the egr valve, the rectangular cast alum box to the left of it is a presure sensor for the valve..it can be mounted anywhere...firewall, etc.
And I just made a discovery looking at the Claiborn pic. See that tube assembly running from the egr valve to the exhaust header? On both Lincolns I disassembled, the tube was cut in the corrugated area, and there were plugs in the exhaust maniflods. The cut tube end was just left open. On the Cobra exhaust manifolds I got, the drivers side had a plug as well. You can see the plug in my rack and pinion clearance picture.3 out of 3? This must have been a Ford authorized fix for an egr problem? I could never figure out why they had those plugs...now I know from Claiborn's pic what they were intended for.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich you can not remove the 02 sensors, they are the heart of you fuel milage and drivability.  Those after the cats (if they are there) can be "dumbied" out with readily available plugs but if you are using the Francis kit they may already be taken care of.  Need to check on that with them.  Try looking at rotating the EGR valve, it don't care which way it is oriented.  The computer that came with the MK should be OBD 2 (might beEEC-VI) which really don't care if the EGR signal is there or not.  It will throw a code for it.

Might be easiest to call and see if they can re-program with all the crap taken out.

[Ford Blue blood]

Looks like you can turn the flying saucer over and re-route the pipe closer to the head.  Those two hose connections are for checking "flow" in the tube and are required to feed a device that tells the computer how much is flowing.

[RICH MUISE]

I think that pic of Claiborns shows a modified tube assembly to fit his new headers. The remains of the ones I have are closer to the heads, and both smaller tubes are above the corrugated area. If you look at the flow sensor to the left and above those 2 pipe outlets, you'll see the rubber tubes coming out the bottom of the sensor...they hook up to the 2 on the pipe. Claiborn had moved his sensor to the firewall, which is why I think his tube is where it is.
Bill, what's your take on the the manifolds no longer using the pipe to the egr valve as Claiborns is using? Too much of a coincedence to be on all three of my vehicles involved. Ford just bypassing a problem rather than fixing it?

[Ford Blue blood]

No, all vehicles have EGR, the EGR system is used to cool down the combustion chamber to reduce NO2 emissions (left over from the days of "Global Cooling" and acid rain) while the car is running after it is warmed up.  The pipe gets the exhaust gas to the control valve, some makes use ports in the intake (mid 70s Fords used a plate under the carb and pulled gas from the heat cross over).  The entire system can be elininated with no ill effects to engine performance or drivability but the computer may need re-programming.  Kinda like removing the cats, no harm, no foul as long as the computer is tweeked.

Rich after thinking about this for a while....if it were me.....I would elininate the EGR, the cats, the purge system, the air injection system and have the computer programed so when the "check engine" light comes on you know you have a problem.

[Tom S]

Rich after thinking about this for a while....if it were me.....I would elininate the EGR, the cats, the purge system, the air injection system and have the computer programed so when the "check engine" light comes on you know you have a problem.

  There is no question that that could eliminate any future problems with all that crap if it can be successfully done.
I'm lost when it comes to all this computer controlled stuff on new cars.

On the other hand Rich probably only needs another 1/4" at most for space for that damn EGR valve & could still use this no cost solution ...   



                 

... some makes use ports in the intake (mid 70s Fords used a plate under the carb and pulled gas from the heat cross over).

This was on a near new, but out of warrantee, 1979 FoMoCo 302 powered car that belonged to my now ex-wife.  When the car started running crappy I pulled the carb & this spacer.





Of course the gasket was burned away too.
It never seemed like a good idea to me to be running hot exhaust gasses thru aluminum.
Even the passageway between the EGR valve & the base of the spacer is burned out.
In any case, I replaced the aluminum spacer plate with a cast iron one & a new gasket & the car ran just fine for many thousands of miles afterward.
At the time we had to pass an under hood inspection & a tailpipe emissions test or I would have eliminated that stinkin' EGR valve & it's spacer altogether.

[RICH MUISE]

LOL...thanks for all the input guys, I think if I drew out my learning curve it would just be a verticle line. Piece by piece, I'm gradually figuring this engine out, instead of the "holy crap, what is all this stuff?". One of the really cool things about doing it yourself, as the Ron Francis sales spiel says...it's the only way you will know and understand your car so you can troubleshoot future problems.
I googled egr valve last night, just to see different physical shapes of valves used. Interestingly, one of the things I ran across was lots of egr deletion kits that ran the gammet from simple 10 dollar block off plates to complicated kits in the 300. range. Saw some for lots of Ford engines, but none for 4.6 (yet)
Lots of research yet to do... the egr will be on my winter to-do list.