I'm trying to decipher a date code of 23 J. What is meant by first year and second year on the date code chart?
See enclosed pictures.
Could be for two model years 57 and 58.
Just a guess, Jay, but I would think the first/second year would mean 1956/1957 in our case. The "J" being in the first year column would indicate the build date was the 23 Sept, 1956. In other words the reference to first and second years are calender year references...so January 1st would be the start of the "second year", and if the date code was 23W it would have been built 23 Sept., 1957.
That would be a Sept 23, 1956 date. If the ash tray lid slides down and inside the dash instead of out, if the rear view mirror stem screws into it's base and locked in place by a jam nut like a t-bird, if the power steering cylinder is from a 1956 Ford, if it's got a D in it's vin number and you have a Special emblem on your glove box or if it still retains oval tri-bar yankee outside mirrors on the fenders, you probably have one built in 1956. Besides, I don't think they built any customs or fairlanes that far into 1957.
Thanks a lot guys. Now I get it.
It's only logical that they would have a code for new cars that were released the year before the actual model year of the car in question.
It makes sense to me now.
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2014-03-31 06:45
Thanks a lot guys. Now I get it.
It's only logical that they would have a code for new cars that were released the year before the actual model year of the car in question.
It makes sense to me now.
Also, that means your car was built the @ second week of production. Your vin number should be below 103000 I'd think. Mine was built the 27J and it has a build vin number 103794
Jay...could you scan the whole page/pages of that info and post it for us? I know there's some info on the 1957 website, but I'd like to see what you've got. Thanks...I just know you've got nothing to do while you're waiting for the snow to melt.
What month did they end production for the 57 model year?
Quote from: rmk57 on 2014-03-31 09:25
What month did they end production for the 57 model year?
I was around and already had my license in 1957 when I first started to notice those cool 57 Ford cars. I remember seeing 57 Fords getting delivered with 58 Fords on the same transporter trucks. So in my mind they were producing them right through 1957 and into 58.
When the Massachusetts State Police started driving 1957 Ford 2 Dr. Customs, I thought that they were the most beautiful car made, and I still feel that way.
But I didn't answer your question 100%.
FIRST AND LAST DAY OF 1957 FORD PRODUCTION: Data Plate wise the earliest production date ( I have this at several plants) is 14J which is September 14, 1956, but I have talked with several Ford engineers and fleet sales people who worked for Ford in the 50's and early 60's. They have told me that around August 15th the plants shut down and the change over to the new model takes about 2 weeks (the '57 change over took longer because it was a completely new car). Then around August 28th the assembly lines are run very slow and 10 cars of every model are built if no problems are found, production starts the next day with the line getting up to full speed in 48 hours. However the '57 line was not problem free, September 2nd and 3rd were a weekend and the 4th was Labor Day. There was limited production on the last days of August and full production started (most likely) very early September 5th. As for the last '57 that would be a Thunderbird E7FH 395813 built 13Z, December 13, 1957. As for Ford passenger cars the last build date I have in my data plate collection is 27W, September 27, 1957 at San Jose, CA...... Information by Lou Champeau at vehicleone@hotmail.com
23J first year 1956 September 23 second year would be 1957 September 23.
Wow! a dual quad T-bird as the last 57, that's goin out in style, and 2 days before I was born
Good stuff to know!
I was built at the same time, born October 56, Mark bawl
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2014-03-31 06:45
Thanks a lot guys. Now I get it.
It's only logical that they would have a code for new cars that were released the year before the actual model year of the car in question.
It makes sense to me now.
Guys.
I was trying to figure out how to interpret what was meant by first year and second year on the date code chart and you answered that question. Sorry if I misled you by my wording with the sample date I gave.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-03-31 07:58
Jay...could you scan the whole page/pages of that info and post it for us? I know there's some info on the 1957 website, but I'd like to see what you've got. Thanks...I just know you've got nothing to do while you're waiting for the snow to melt.
Rich
I'll send the pages to you and sent you an email. Jay
Thanks....I'll scan and post them when I get them.
Jim:
I researched the date code on my 57 and found it was made on September 27, 1957 and was number 247 from the actual end of the production run of 57's at the Terminal Island plant in San Pedro/Long Beach. No wonder all my major structural welds were blow throughs on the motor mounts, transmission mounts and upper rear shock mounts. Must have been lots of celebrating going on. Every one of my welds on those pieces was bad and I've had all of them redone.
Bob
57 AGIN
Quote from: 57AGIN on 2014-04-02 01:33
Jim:
I researched the date code on my 57 and found it was made on September 27, 1957 and was number 247 from the actual end of the production run of 57's at the Terminal Island plant in San Pedro/Long Beach. No wonder all my major structural welds were blow throughs on the motor mounts, transmission mounts and upper rear shock mounts. Must have been lots of celebrating going on. Every one of my welds on those pieces was bad and I've had all of them redone.
Bob
57 AGIN
That's exactly a year from the day that mine was assembled. Sorry to hear someone hit your car. They probably didn't have insurance anyway.
Welder trainees started on the frame line.
Mine has the same poor welding, blown through and not welded in places, although mine was built on Feb 20th, in the San Jose plant, 862nd car scheduled to be built that day. Quality wasn't exactly job 1 back then was it.
Randy
My Ranchero frame has nice welds. I wonder if the Ranchero/wagon frames were built on a different line. It just may have been a different shift or employee also.
My San Diago built early Ranchero has great welds as well....
Wow, that is fascinating about the different models having better welds. Gasman, I have to believe you are correct about trainees doing the frame welding. The welds were fine for the 6 cyl. my car was made with, but with close to 500 hp now I feel better having redone all of them.
Bob
57 AGIN
Ya got me wondering so I went out and did an inspection of my Ranchero welds.They look real good.I never heard anything about bad factory welds on these cars before.
That old stick welder you have in the back corner of the garage was new technology in '57. Ford had just started welding frames. Earlier frames were riveted. I don't know if '57 was the first year but one of the early years for welded box frames. Boxed frames are part of the overall design to get the '57 lower and better handling. If you look closely at the box frame welds, the weld is not constant...it is skipped. This allows the box frame to flex and twist for ride quality. I locked my frame to a frame table, pulled it to spec and welded it end to end top and bottom. I wonder it the Ranchero and wagon frames were considered heavy duty and therefore welded better and more complete for a stronger and stiffer frame. Anyway, it needs to be considered with higher horse power applications.
The AO Smith plant in Milwaukee provided complete car frames to manufacturers for many years. Not sure which of the big three were built there, you always saw semi trailers with frames stacked high pulling out of town. The switch to unibody construction kind of spelled the end for those jobs. I once new a dirt tracker who acquired a brand new frame somehow for his 67 chevelle.
My uncle Art Abraham worked for AO Smith after dropping out of school until his retirement in 76. They made frames for everything that rolled during the 40s until when he retired. When he retired they were doing pretty much heavy truck stuff and a few government jobs.
well, with all this date code talk I had to check mine out last week. As it turns out, my 57' is 57 years old today! It was born on 5 April 1957!
Tim :unitedstates:
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-04-01 08:30
Thanks....I'll scan and post them when I get them.
Jay..got them in the mail today. I'll get them scanned and posted as soon as I have a chance. Thanks!
OK Rich
Thanks for letting me know that they arrived.
I'm pretty sure that they are going to keep you busy for a while.
Have Fun Jay
Quote from: gasman826 on 2014-04-02 19:15
If you look closely at the box frame welds, the weld is not constant...it is skipped. This allows the box frame to flex and twist for ride quality. I locked my frame to a frame table, pulled it to spec and welded it end to end top and bottom.
There is a very good reason for doing the ''skipped'' method. and its not to save time or material. Its a practical solution to prevent failure. On any weld if it starts to crack it can and given time will walk the length of the weld. So if one short weld fails the whole structure doesn't. Next time you get passed by a semi on the hi-way take a look at the frame rails its done that way on purpose. And if you ever get to see one being built its really interesting to see how welds are done in very specific order jumping back and forth to keep twist,etc... under control. Those amazing welding robots doing a dance up and down the frames.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Quote from: Zapato on 2014-04-08 09:14
There is a very good reason for doing the ''skipped'' method. and its not to save time or material. Its a practical solution to prevent failure.
Zap- :unitedstates:
I noticed those skipped welds on the battle ships and aircraft carriers in the Boston Naval shipyard also. It's safe to say that they were exposed to some twisting and turning over the years..
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2014-04-08 10:02
I noticed those skipped welds on the battle ships and aircraft carriers in the Boston Naval shipyard also. It's safe to say that they were exposed to some twisting and turning over the years..
You haven't experienced shaking until you find yourself under a naval gun mount firing in rapid mode. And it does rattle things loose all over the ship. Had the pleasure to man a damage control locker just aft and 2 decks below a gun mount and have been in 6point earthquakes and as far as the shaking goes I'd take the earthquake. But if we're dealing with damage the skipped welds take it a lot better than mother nature when she rattles.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zap you should be on a Battleship when the 16"ers are fired! No worry about dust in the overhead on those bad boys. My stateroom's forward bulkhead was turret 2 barbett on USS Wisconsin. Needless to say when they were shooting there was no sleeping! During Golf War I we shot nearly around the clock, the RPV would go out scouting for targets, we find one, get permission to fire and commence. The live video from the RPV was fed over the ships entertainment system so the crew got to watch the other end of our business.
concerning the date code, my 57 Dearborn factory buildt Del Rio's tag says 22H, this would make it an August 22nd of 1956 car !!! is that possible at all ? the tag looks 100% OG and all the other information is correct also.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2014-04-09 16:11
concerning the date code, my 57 Dearborn factory buildt Del Rio's tag says 22H, this would make it an August 22nd of 1956 car !!! is that possible at all ? the tag looks 100% OG and all the other information is correct also.
Guenther
I believe that 22H is August 22nd of 1956. If not, someone on this site will tell us for sure. Jay
What is the serial number? It would have to be around 101001
My Ranchero has the code 02H making it August 2 1956. Kanas City Ks. built. Serial #A7KF167063 223 six cyl.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2014-04-09 16:11
concerning the date code, my 57 Dearborn factory buildt Del Rio's tag says 22H, this would make it an August 22nd of 1956 car !!! is that possible at all ? the tag looks 100% OG and all the other information is correct also.
Absolutly not only posible, I'm surprised they could start building them that late. Back in the 50's in the U.S., all the Detroit manufacturers use to debut their new model years in September (Oct.?)of the year prior, if I remember correctly. National advertising would make sure you knew the new model year car was available at your local dealers.
I got the data plate decoding sheets that Jay sent me scanned and posted..it's in the technical bulletins board.
02H is August 2, 1957, and 22H would be August 22, 1957.
Lou..now I'm confused. Have we been using the charts wrongly? I see "H" in the first year column..wouldn't that make it 1956 for the 1957 models?
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-04-12 07:56
Lou..now I'm confused. Have we been using the charts wrongly? I see "H" in the first year column..wouldn't that make it 1956 for the 1957 modelsQuote from: Sandiaman on 2014-04-09 20:28
My Ranchero has the code 02H making it August 2 1956. Kanas City Ks. built. Serial #A7KF167063 223 six cyl.
I would think the serial number alone would give pause to the thinking this vehicle was assembled in 1956. 67,063 vehicles produced from one assembly plant a month before every other known documents saying assembly started in Sept.
Is the 6digit number in the VIN really the actual number of cars produced or is it another code for production plant or even different model numbers buildt ? My Del Rio's serial number starts 360 ***, so even if this would be August 22nd of 57, a total of 360 000 car would not suffice up to that date or would it ? and here we have 2 close H date code cars that have totally different serial numbers. one starting with 160000 and the other with 360000. no way to build 200 000 cars in 3 weeks.
I am really used to proper VIN information on Volkswagen, Porsches or Mercedes and I think it is really interesting when and where one's car was buildt, with dates which factory modifications and changes took place. so I am really stunned about the lack of Knowledge about the 57 Ford Vins ?!
oh I just re read the VIN table in the bulletins and the first digit of the serial number is not consecutive. but even if it was only the last 5 digit mine is 60 000 on Aug 22nd and Sandiaman's Aug 2nd has 67000 which is higher than the later buildt. totally confused. or is it just the last 4 digits serial production on exactly that day of production per given plant ?
I have found out over the years of seeing these posts that if Lou says something, you can take it to the bank. lol
djfordmanjack, your Del Rio was built at Dearborn, most likely in the early moring of Aug 22, 1957 as i have data plate info on 3 other cars built that day and they are 361504, 361960, 363535. To find production number subtack 100,000 from the unit number.
Thanks...Jim for the vote of convience.
thx Lou, that really sounds like proficient knowledge. I'd still be interested what the data sheet means with 'second year of production'
what would be a Y data code then , would it be buildt in 1958 ?
So starting from your expertise, I reckon a 1956 buildt 57 model should have a 6 VIN code with second year of production month code to make it a 57 built in 56, I confess that I am still a bit puzzled :005:
what would an ashtray like this look like ?
my mirror stem screws in with a jam nut.
Quote from: JimNolan on 2014-03-31 05:09
If the ash tray lid slides down and inside the dash instead of out, if the rear view mirror stem screws into it's base and locked in place by a jam nut like a t-bird, if the power steering cylinder is from a 1956 Ford, if it's got a D in it's vin number and you have a Special emblem on your glove box or if it still retains oval tri-bar yankee outside mirrors on the fenders, you probably have one built in 1956. Besides, I don't think they built any customs or fairlanes that far into 1957.
now I got it I think ! the first production year letters are not calendar year but production year months. since there were no official August 56 cars, they started with the J for September, went to M for Dec 56 and because A to H had not been used for the PRODUCTION year, the went ahead with those, making an H an August 57 and they had to use the W for Sept.57, because it was the next year of PRODUCTION. holy ****, and I am always arguing with the Chevy guys that the #1 cyl in front right is logical, now that is something different :003:
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2014-04-12 16:30
what would an ashtray like this look like ?
my mirror stem screws in with a jam nut.
Like a 1956 ashtray. Really awkward. Instead of dropping the ashes into a container that flipped out from the dash you stuck the cigarette into the dash ashtray receptacle. I used a 1957 on my car because the original one is not usable without missing it and sticking your cigarette into the dash. Ruins paint.
Well, I apparently gave a wrong guess with production staring in August..found this letter posted on the 1957ford.com website. Production didn't start until September 12..so no August production, so also "H" would have to be 1957 as Lou stated. So, my guess on how the "first year and second year" was determined was also wrong...it can't be a calender year thing. I stand corrected...and still confused. I guess my memory was off also on when Detroit traditionally debued their new lines.