mustang hydro-boost

[ROKuberski]

Thanks for the response.  I think I've located a 2001 Mustang in a salvage yard near me.  If this car has the boost unit and a good price for it I'll get that and see what the issues are.  I looked on eBay for the same model as the one I found on the Rockauto.com website.  Prices are all over the place, but not as cheap as Rockauto.  Some of those units are in the $400 - $500 range. 

Rich

[RICH MUISE]

The hydroboost units I believe were not an across the board usage item for any of the Ford vehicles. It depended on the motor that was in the car and thus the space problem creating the need for the hydroboost. I think the Mustangs that had 6 cyl engines used the traditional vacumn booster. I'm not even sure what or why some trucks had them, as there was no space problem...posibly a problem with a particular engine having low vacum output??
Something you need to check on in the hydoboost threads...it was about '01 that Mustang changed to a larger bore master cylinder, and it is that larger bore you need. I just don't remember for sure what year it was. Mine came off an '02 GT mustang. I think '01 is ok, just not 100% sure.
Look at the mounting bolt pattern on the hydroboost for the master cylinder...two bolts, top and bottom...not on the sides as most traditional masters. I would buy a matched set and not try to fidle with it. As Gary mentioned, I think your asking for additional problems. I can understand your thoughts on it...those masters for the hydroboost are kinda ugly.
I had a difficult time getting the rod made/installed for the hookup to the oem brake pedal, but I think I remember reading Gary's install post, and he had a better solution.
I don't know how much of the great stopping my car has is a result of the hydoboost, but I sure am happy with the brakes in general.
Mustangs had a propotioning valve block on the brake lines. I'm guessing that's the block your talking about. Gar is correct, btw, 3 lines...the third one being a return line. Your power steering also has a return line, so that means you need a power steering reservoir capable of handling two return lines, or you need to figure out an alternative solution. Mustangs used a tee to connect the two returns before going into the reservoir. What you need to do depends on whether or not your PS pump has a built in reservoir, or if you use a remote reservoir. Remotes would be simpler to change to a 2 return reservoir.

[ROKuberski]

Rich,

Thanks for the additional information.  When I looked at the Rockauto site they listed the same master cylinder for 99 and later, but for both pre 99 and 99>04 they list a 1" bore.  Do you know what size (or model number) yours is? 

I looked at 1999 & 2000 for the Mustang V6 and both a vacuum and a hydro boost unit are listed.  I guess it depended on where it was assembled or what was left on the shelf on the day it was screwed together.

I have the Borgeman Saginaw PS pump and it has one inlet for return.  I'll just use the tee method for connecting both return lines.  The supply line to the gear box is going to become surplus.  I'll need a new line from pump to boost unit and boost unit to gear box.  There is a place in town that makes these lines and I hope I can get it fabricated with correct ends so I won't have to use any adapters.

I have a single inlet/outlet proportioning valve in the system now.  I assume that this won't work for the new system.  I will need a unit for disk/drum.  On eBay I've seen them for GM, but not for Ford.  Don't know if this makes a difference or not.

By the way, I don't know who Gary is.  Can you give me a link to the post you are talking about for hooking up the push rod?

Rich 

[BWhitmore]

I am pretty sure Ford trucks with diesel engines used hydro boost power brakes.

[RICH MUISE]

Sorry...Gary is Canadian Ranchero. There are several other Gary's here, but he was the one I was referencing...although the other Gary (gasman) has a hydroboost on his as well...just an older setup. I think my bore is 1 1/16.
The Mustang hydroboost are Metric. www.purechoicemotorsports.com makes adapters/ banjo fittings for these if your local guy can't make what you want.
Not sure on the single inlet/outlet you have. My thinking is the adjustable feature is for the rear brakes only anyway...the front brakes actually just run straight thru I believe, so your single unit should work.

[ROKuberski]

Rich,

If the one I am going to look at is 1", and yours is 1-1/16", then you have a net area that is 12.9% larger resulting in a small reduction in hydraulic pressure for the same force applied at the piston.  It sounds like there is plenty of applied force from the hydraulic boost unit.  Is it possible to have too much pressure resulting in "touchy" brakes?  Is there any adjustment short of the installation of a pressure reducing valve?

I am aware of the banjo fittings.  I saw them on several YouTube videos that I watched showing the installation of the hydro boost unit.  They look like a great solution plus they can point in any direction making it easier to make neat connections. 

I've seen in my research that some people have installed these boost units in different orientations without any adverse effects.  However, the way they are installed the Mustangs may work well for my Fairlane. 

As always, I really appreciate having this forum to turn to for advice, suggestions and information.

Rich

Below is what my single line valve looks like. 

[canadian_ranchero]

the info i have says 99-04 mustang gt have a 1 1/16 master cylinder bore.i am using a aftermarket disc/drum gm proportioning valve,it has a metering valve in it for the front brakes[most disc/drum  proportioning valves with ports for the front brake lines have a metering valve in them,sometimes called combination valves] the metering valve delays presser to the front brakes until the rear brake spring presser is overcome and all 4 brakes apply evenly.with out this metering valve, on light braking you are only using the front brakes 

[RICH MUISE]

What he said is correct...I mispoke on the years.

[ROKuberski]

Thanks guys.  Good explanation of what the Proportioning valve is doing. 

Did you guys have to enlarge the hole in the firewall to mount the boost unit?  Did the bolt holes line up or did you have to drill new holes?

I am going to a salvage yard either today or tomorrow.  If the car still has the boost/master cylinder I am going to get it.  Even if I can't use the used units, their cost is less than the credit I will get for sending them in for credit as the core.

In the picture below, you can see two sizes of M/C listed for the Mustang.  1" and 1-1/16".  This is from the Rockauto site.

Rich

[canadian_ranchero]

if i remember 2 bolt holes line up,but you need to make the firewall hole longer

[canadian_ranchero]

here is a picture

[RICH MUISE]

In the pic Gary posted you will see a dimple right in the center of the area he has chalk marked. You can use that dimple to center a 2"(?) hole saw.
I think I also remembered two of the holes lined up, and two of the studs on the new unit will have to be cut off, then the other two holes corresponding to the inside brake/dash bracket have to be transfered. I think you'll end up with two studs and two bolts.

[ROKuberski]

So guys, it looks to me like you have moved the center line of the master cylinder/push rod up a ways.  Is that true?

Rich

[RICH MUISE]

Yes, but not seem to be an issue. I've got a smooth pedal with no binding. Somewhere I posted some pics of the install...haven't found them yet, but I'll keep looking.
DUUUHHH...I just realized this was a thread I started, and what pics I posted were here. I've got more pics if you need to see anything in particular.

[ROKuberski]

I guess what I should have also asked is why?  I assume the hydro boost unit is smaller than a 7" dia. vacuum unit.  However, the 7" vacuum unit needs to be raised about 1.5" when it is installed. 

If one of the Mustangs at the salvage yard near me still has the boost/master cylinder in it, I will pick it up tomorrow.  Having one in hand will be helpful.

Rich