I've decided to replace my leaky smoking engine with a re-manufactured original engine. Even though it runs okay, I'm sick of the leaks and watching the smoke on start up and acceleration. Of course it also consumes oil. Yes, I've considered upgrading to a more modern engine, but I will stick with the Y-block.
I was going to get a local shop to rebuild mine, but it's either way too much money or way too much time or both. Online I found S & J engines in Seattle and they will furnish me with a long block with everything on it new except the crank and connecting rods. I've already got a new water pump and found DamperDudes in California who will rebuild my harmonic balancer ($123 + shipping) with a 1 day turnaround. I have a factory three groove pulley that I am pretty sure is a one piece unit. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but I don't want to rely on 65 year old rubber. I'll also get my radiator serviced while it's out of the car. I think my grand total cost will be about $3,500 and that includes round trip shipping of engines.
While the engine is out, I'll clean and repaint the engine compartment and make a few minor mods on wiring routing to clean things up a little.
If curious, this is what they do the to the engine. I have to install my sheetmetal parts, water pump, manifolds, and other bolt on's.
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Engine block and cylinder heads: 800 degrees (F) 8 hours in Burn-Off Oven - Bead Blasted to remove all waste, carbon and buildup - Cylinder walls bored and diamond honed - Oil and water galleys pressure cleaned - Cylinder Heads pressure checked - New Valves - New Valve Springs & Retainers - Diamond Honed Valve Guides - Three-Angle Cut Valve Seats - All Cylinder Head Surfaces Broached - Engine Block Bored with Deck Plates - Cylinder Walls Diamond Honed - Crankshaft Ground & Polished to within .002 Clearance of factory specs - Camshaft is brand new - Connecting Rods Sized to .002 Clearance of factory specs - New Pistons - cast aluminum pistons - New Pin Bushings - New Cast Rings - New Timing Gears - New Camshaft Bearings - New Timing Chain/Belt - New Lifters - New Push Rods - New Rockers - New Oil Pump - New Performance Gaskets and we ship your engine with Lucas Performance Break-in Oil.
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I'll strip my engine before sending it back, so I'll have some decent used parts lf any on is interested. My engine was rebuilt in 1995, but the guy that did the project died and the car sat until I bought it in 2011. I've put about 12,000 miles on it since then.
I have a good starter and generator, and will have valve train, water pump, draft tube, timing gears & chain, and if someone want it, I will pull the cam.
Great to hear from you, Rich............I was wondering what happened to you. I'll be anxious to hear how this works out for you. Be sure to keep us all posted/caught up. If we ever heard how the aod issues got resolved..I never saw .
Rich,
Yes, good to hear from you too. I can tell you this, I am a master of removing an automatic transmission from this car. Watch this video for the full story. I can now remove the transmission in 40 minutes, as skill that I will use one more time as I do the engine transplant.
The transmission was way more of a project than it should have been, but it's done and and working well. There were a few bumps in the road to completion. Hopefully the engine replacement is smooooooth sailing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-L2kuIHpLI&list=PLpOcKSzessf5SqJFFHV3x6DDX1Ra9kFLf&index=2&t=1s
I plan to remove the engine about a week before the long block arrives. That will give me time to clean and paint the engine bay and remove the parts I need from my engine. I want to get them media blasted and painted in advance so reassembly can go quickly.
Updates to follow and of course there will be a video on this project too.
Here is a link to all of my automotive related videos, only three of the videos are about my Fairlane.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpOcKSzessf5SqJFFHV3x6DDX1Ra9kFLf
On another note, I was watching the car auction on TV for a little while this afternoon. I saw a 59 Chevy Impala convertible sell for over $200K. It had won some restoration award. Lots of 60's & 70" muscle cars were bringing big $$$$$$.
Thats a very reasonable price for a long block motor. A friend had his done at a local shop and it was $5000 and took the idiots 3 months to do. What cam are they using?
If you pull the cam the engine has to be upside down. Then when turned right side up all the lifters will fall inside.
It will be a stock cam. This is not a high performance upgrade. If the lifters fall in, it won't matter. I'll strip my engine before sending the core back. Transportation between Seattle and Denver is $175 each way and there is an $800 charge for the core. I'm not a collector of engine blocks, so back it goes.
I have been quoted between $4,000 and $6,500 for a local rebuild and 3 - 4 months to do it. S & J wants 6-8 weeks plus a week for shipping. I would guess that some engines that are more popular than Y-blocks may be in stock for a quicker turn around. I don't remember how many engines the guy I talked to said they do a year, but it is in the thousands. They must have a huge shop.
I looked on line for S & J videos and some are kind of clunky, but this one shows final testing of the assembled engine. I would liked to have seen a tour of their shop, following an engine through the various operations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBKJdKZlLIM&t=1s
I would ask about what cam and who they are getting it from. The best OEM cam is the 57 cam, that and the heads are why 57 Y blocks run better then other years. Most stock replacement cams aren't the equivalent of the 57, they are more like truck cams. The only people I know who make one is Oregon cams.
I used the ISKY 300 series cam. 3/4 race. Good idle. Defiantly perks the engine up.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-01-16 14:46
I would ask about what cam and who they are getting it from. The best OEM cam is the 57 cam, that and the heads are why 57 Y blocks run better then other years. Most stock replacement cams aren't the equivalent of the 57, they are more like truck cams. The only people I know who make one is Oregon cams.
Are you talking about these guys? I'm reluctant to experiment with a 3/4 race cam. This is a mild car and I'm okay with that.
http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/order.html
If not, give me a direct link.
I recently got a '57 sales brochure. Cheap and kind of cool. Here is one picture from it.
Rich, great to hear from you again! Curios about the company you are using and the quality of what they will be providing. Keep us informed please. My two cents on the cam is stay with stock (or not far from the original specs).
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-01-16 16:17
Are you talking about these guys? I'm reluctant to experiment with a 3/4 race cam. This is a mild car and I'm okay with that.
http://www.oregoncamshaft.com/order.html
If not, give me a direct link.
I recently got a '57 sales brochure. Cheap and kind of cool. Here is one picture from it.
Yes, Ken at Oregon is a great guy, and a Ford collector and drag racer. I have been running Oregon Cams in my cars for decades, in my drag FEs, and currently have an Oregon Cams solid flat tappet cam in my 59s 428 FE. Not sure what availability of new Y Block lifters is, but Ken has a lifter refacing machine, so he cam resurface you old lifters, providing they are in decent condition. Instead of asking for a specific cam on your own, give Ken the information, about your engine combination, your car, including transmission and the rear axle ratio, and how you plan to use the car, and let him chose the cam.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2022-01-16 19:53
Rich, great to hear from you again! Curios about the company you are using and the quality of what they will be providing. Keep us informed please. My two cents on the cam is stay with stock (or not far from the original specs).
Lynn,
Good to hear from you too. I'll give information and post a video of the project when complete.
As to the cam, it will be new as will the entire valve train, right down to the solid lifters. I'll ask what cam they intend to use, but I can't imagine that there are all that many sources for new stock cams for a Y-Block.
I suggest that you watch some of the S & J videos, especially the one I posted a link to below. I was impressed with their after assembly testing of the engine. If I had the work done at a small local shop I'm sure this type of testing would not have happened.
I feel pretty comfortable with the scope of this project, but I haven't pulled an engine since I was 15 years old. Ready for a story.
When I was 15, a guy down the street had two 1950 Plymouth sedans. He took the best of the two cars and made one car for himself. Talking to him one day he offered me all of the leftovers for $5.00. I accepted on the spot. However, before pushing this home, I did run this by my Dad. He completely supported this project. So, with the transmission in the trunk and the drive shaft poking out of one rear window, my friends and I pushed the car to my house, only about half a dozen houses down the street and it was downhill to my house. We parked the car by the side of the house and took stock of what was there and what was not. It took a year of my earnings mowing lawns and many trips to the local junk yard and auto parts stores. My Dad bought me the few tools needed that he did not have, ring compressor, ridge reamer, torque wrench, all of which I still have. Once this car was running another guy I knew made me a very good offer for it and I sold it for $100. Not long after that I got a 1955 Ford Custom for $150, a very fine piece of crap as I remember. Had to rebuild the transmission after some minor abuse one night, but that's another story.
Did I mention that I graduated from the Busted Knuckle University? Got the wall plaque to prove it.
You want to stay as close to original cam specs as possible with an auto trans and if you have power brakes. Off the self replacement cams are milder the the 57. Ask what cylinder heads come with the engine, heads after 58 are lower compression and smaller valves. That combo will be a lot less performance then a 57 engine, But that may even be better then your currant engine if it's in bad condition.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-01-17 07:11
You want to stay as close to original cam specs as possible with an auto trans and if you have power brakes. Off the self replacement cams are milder the the 57. Ask what cylinder heads come with the engine, heads after 58 are lower compression and smaller valves. That combo will be a lot less performance then a 57 engine, But that may even be better then your currant engine if it's in bad condition.
Jim,
I'll contact the shop today and ask some questions. I do have an auto trans, but mine is now an AOD, my power brakes are hydro boost, so that should make no difference. I've also got the Holly Sniper EFI system installed. I've never read that power went down in later years. But, this link supports what you said.
https://www.enginefacts.com/ford292/
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-01-17 10:17
Jim,
I'll contact the shop today and ask some questions. I do have an auto trans, but mine is now an AOD, my power brakes are hydro boost, so that should make no difference. I've also got the Holly Sniper EFI system installed. I've never read that power went down in later years. But, this link supports what you said.
https://www.enginefacts.com/ford292/
You shouldn't have any problem since you use the hydro boost. After the FE engine was introduced they detuned the Y block. The later engines are lower compression and smaller valves and a milder cam, and the 61-64 truck heads are even worst.. you don't want those..
I have asked to get a '57 block/heads if possible. They will let me know soon. They have noted that these blocks are getting in short supply. Does not surprise me. It's been a long time since any were made.
Thanks for all of the input on this project.
Rich
Are they saying they don't have an engine readily available to rebuild? I wouldn't worry about the block they were all the same until 62-64. The 62-64 were actually stronger but had thinner cylinder walls for over boring. Any combination of years parts will work and have a decent running engine but not quite up to the 57, The key to the 57 is the heads, cam and rocker arms. When those gt changed performance will be less.
This is the first engine I built for mine out of a mixture of different parts. It ran fine but not quite like the 57 engine which I eventually rebuilt and put back in.
This is a 55 block, 61 crank and rods, 60 cylinder heads. but I wouldn't hesitate using it again if needed.
What they said is "The block guy was out yesterday and they will see what they have today."
I could ship them my engine, but the car will be out of service less if I wait for theirs. I need to think about this option.
Rich
I would be inclined to send them mine as long as I knew I would be getting the same parts back.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2022-01-18 10:33
I would be inclined to send them mine as long as I knew I would be getting the same parts back.
X2 what Lynn said.
Just my thoughts about these large engine rebuilders who do mostly new model engines and do they have people who know Yblocks?
Having yours done locally at least you can keep an eye on things to be sure you get out what you sent in. I know it may be more expensive but sometimes the cheaper and easy doesn't always work out so well.. I'll get of my soap box LOL
I doubt that any builder does many Y-Block these days. Two of the companies I spoke to admitted to never having done one and one guy had done several, but not lately, not for years.
I've considered several options, including doing nothing. It runs okay, I just have to keep putting oil in it and cleaning the drip pan in the garage. I am favorably impressed with the video I saw on their final testing of the engine. I also watched a couple of other videos they have. I am comfortable with my selection. After my transmission journey, I am philosophical about these things. Briefly stated "**** Happens." It's just better when it happens to someone else. I'm a pretty good shade tree mechanic and I will be able to see and check the things that they did before I close up everything. I can't try to start it before installing it since I have the EFI system and some of that would be a PITA to remove from the car just to do a test run.
I really do appreciate all of the comments I get on this site. I always learn something.
Rich
Thats one of the problems, there aren't a lot of us old guys who know how to build them left anymore. The last engine I built for my 57 will probably my last, I'm just getting to old to take these things on anymore.
Good luck with what ever way you go.
Jim, Old is relative. Me? Last birthday I hit 75. 40 years ago I would said that is ancient. Now, I'm not so sure. I work hard at keeping in shape and I still have all the original body parts. I tell people that I plan to live to 100, but we shall see.
I'll post a video on the project. I just painted my new water pump, but I doubt that anyone wants to see that. By the way, I got the pump for $41 at Rockauto +shipping. (Said it was the last one, but they had another one available.) I always check them first. It was $130 at Jerry's Classic Cars & Parts.
Rob, I'll be 75 in March, but my health isn't the best. I've pulled,rebuilt,installed so many engines over the years I know when to quit. I could do it again if I really had to but I'd rather not.
I'm 75 also, got COPD somehow :002: At this stage we have to watch our mental health as well......which reminds me, who the heck is Rob?
Rich, I just remembered, Al in Black Forrest had a rebuilt 312 he was going to put in his until he decided on the 4.6 Mustang cobra drivetrain, haven't heard anything from him in years. I wonder if that project is still in his garage.
Rich, I've been called worse.
Is Al the guy that you and I visited a few years back? Must be he had the front end off of his car and was working on a major modification for the engine. I'm too lazy for that kind of stuff. My mods are bolt on's. I'm fine with my choice to go with a rebuilt 292. A 312 would trash my 2V EFI unit. I want a simple, reliable, no leak, no smoke engine. And I want it back on the road in a reasonable amount of time. I hope to only have the car out of service for 3 - 4 weeks.
I don't think I've ever seen a series of pictures on your car. Have you posted them somewhere?
Rich
OOPs, sorry Rich another brain fart, I seem to be having more of those lately :005:
Why would a 312 trash your EFI?
Yes, that's the guy. Al wasn't spending much time in Colorado after his wife died, and he totally lost interest in his car hobby. I suspect he's sold his Black Forest home and moved on. I'll do a little searching for a phone number and see what I can find out.
Pics.......? Probably the best location would be one of my old build threads. I'll look, but I don't think I ever put one together for the "member's rides". We haven't done a very good job here of having a good picture section for member's rides.
Hello Rich,
I don't mean to hijack this thread for another subject, but I was watching your video on modifications to your car (great job on the videos BTW) and I am interested in doing the Wilwood disk brake mod on my 57. It looks like you were able to keep your original spindles with the Wilwood installation and the 67 Galaxie master cylinder bolted up with nice clearance for the exhaust manifold. Were you able to keep the original 14" wheels or did you have to go with a different wheel to get clearance with the calipers?
Good luck on your engine rebuild decision. On my previous 57 Fairlane (with 292) I had the engine rebuilt at a local shop that did a lot of engine work for a local dirt track. My engine was in their shop for over 6 months because it kept getting pushed back for priority customers. That shop is no longer in business (this was over 10 years ago) but it was frustrating to keep calling while waiting for the engine. The shop in Seattle looks very professional and the running pressure check they do is outstanding.
Thanks,
Dave
Dave,
The Wilwood Disk brake kit is super. It was a snap to install and yes, kept the original spindles. No on the stock wheels. I did mount one and tried to spin it but the rivets hit, just barely, but they are a no go. I used 14" wheels from a late '70's Ford car that used 14" wheels. I wanted to keep the stock wheel covers and I think that's the only way you can do this. I think by the late 70's all the cars had disk front brakes.
Now, I was disappointed in my braking without power brakes. I tried a 7" boost unit, but that does not work well at 5,600' where I live. When I installed the power steering I now had a source of hydraulic power for the hydroboost unit. That combination makes the car stop like a car made yesterday. Zero problems stopping. The hydroboost unit also makes it hard to access plugs 7 & 8, I have to remove them from under the car.
Good luck,
Rich
Rich,
Thanks for the quick response. I thought that the original 14" wheels would not have clearance based on other brake related forum threads, but was hopeful. When spring finally arrives, I will check around for appropriate wheels before making a decision to move forward with the disk brake upgrade.
Good luck with your engine.
Dave
Dave,
I've always wondered if the center section of the wheel could be welded in place and the rivets removed. Good workmanship and rebalancing of the wheel and that could solve the problem. I had a bad day with the brakes coming down from about 7,500' to about 6,000' on a day that was not all that hot. That really put me on track for the disk brake project.
By the way, I really like the color of your car.
Rich
Rich, I attempted to send you a pm yesterday. Did you get it? I do have a 292 short block from a 58..
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-01-19 09:51
I've always wondered if the center section of the wheel could be welded in place and the rivets removed. Good workmanship and rebalancing of the wheel and that could solve the problem.
Here is one source - http://thewheelsmith.net/
Quote from: terry_208 on 2022-01-19 11:18
Rich, I attempted to send you a pm yesterday. Did you get it? I do have a 292 short block from a 58..
Terry,
No, I did not get your message. Unfortunately, I don't think a block is of any use to me in this transaction. I have to return my long block to them and the deal is that they will provide me with a rebuild long block. If anything changes, I'll let you know.
Rich
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2022-01-19 12:37
Here is one source - http://thewheelsmith.net/
Looks like these guys can make anything you want. I could not find pricing in their online information.
I went to the tri-state swap meet a few years ago and found a set of 4-wheels that were just what I needed for only $100. Turns out that a friend had a 5th wheel that he gave me, gotta have a spare. I also sold my old wheels to a guy in Pennsylvania for about $100, so I came out even.
Rich
Rich & Kultulz
Thanks for the info on the custom wheel source. I checked on the custom wheels on their website and it looks like they start out with 15" wheels and go up from there (unless I read the site wrong). I have looked this afternoon on Ebay and found some wheels for 64-65 Mustangs that indicate they are the correct size (14" with 4.5" bolt circle, 5 holes) and some that are for an 83-91 Crown Vic that appear to also be the right size. They are pretty proud of the rims (want $175 plus $45 shipping for a pair of the Crown Vic rims)
Changing to front disks has been on my wish list for a while, even though the car seems to stop pretty good with the stock drums. You do have to get on the brakes pretty hard if you're trying to stop from speed but so far it has been okay.
I have also thought about welding the inside member to the rim. I have an extra spare wheel that came with a Continental Kit on the car when I bought it (removed the kit because I like the look better without it). I might try welding (carefully) and then grinding down the rivet heads somewhat depending on how much extra clearance is needed. You would need to leave the rivets in place to still have a good seal on the inside of the rim. Probably not something that safety people would recommend.
The car is in "cold storage" for the winter, so not a big hurry to get wheels at this point. I think I'll try to locate some in some junk yards that have older cars in the spring (might get lucky) before I pull the trigger on the project. I found dimensions on the Wilwood website that indicate how much internal clearance is needed on the rim and I can make a wood gage block that fits into the center mounting hole to simulate that clearance. I think I would like to check out rims in person to make sure they have clearance.
Thanks a lot for the information (and I really like the color of your car as well, and it looks like I have hijacked your original engine thread but really appreciate the info)
Dave
Dave,
I'm not sure that any of the '60's wheels will work. I think you have to have wheels from a car that had front disk brakes. I am pretty sure I am using Granada wheels.
I'm not sure where you live, but I run my car throughout the winter as long as the roads are dry. The heater works just fine now that I put a rebuilt core in it.
Back to my engine, I've confirmed that they do have either a '57 or '58 core to rebuild. That should be fine. I do want the most powerful engine I can find because at my altitude we derate engines about 18 - 20%.
Rich
Rich,
I am pretty sure that Mustangs had optional front disks from 64 on. I have a friend who has a 65 Mustang with front disks that were original equipment (yep, he bought that car new, sold it and then later re-purchased his same original Mustang). Ford full size also had optional disks from about 65 or 66 according to Rockauto website that offers calipers for those models. The Granadas are the wheels of choice because they had front disks as standard (as far as I know). But I would like to personally inspect the wheels rather than buy something that may not work and then not be able to return them. What I need is to find a deal like you did getting all 4 wheels for $100, but I think that deal might be one of a kind.
I live in southeast Iowa so from about November to end of March, I store my car in a local U-Store facility. Unfortunately I have just a 2-car garage and in the winter I like to keep my F150 in the garage (hate scraping windows) and so the Skyliner has to go (but I visit it now and then). My wife's minivan takes the first spot (of course).
Glad to hear your engine project is looking up and the Seattle shop has cores that will work. Looking forward to some more videos of your engine replacement.
Dave
I have a 14" spare wheel/tire. My wheel is 14 x 6.5 from an 70's LTD. It fit my Wilwood front brakes. I saw several on eBay the other day. A stock '57 wheel will not work.
Quote from: oldave57 on 2022-01-20 07:24
Rich,
I live in southeast Iowa so from about November to end of March, I store my car in a local U-Store facility. Unfortunately I have just a 2-car garage and in the winter I like to keep my F150 in the garage (hate scraping windows) and so the Skyliner has to go (but I visit it now and then). My wife's minivan takes the first spot (of course).
Dave
Dave,
If you can borrow a wheel to try, or make your test piece to confirm fit, that would confirm that you are okay. On the stock wheel, I think the size is okay except for the rivets, it's that close to working.
My previous house had a single car garage, when we moved to our current house (1994) we opted for the three car garage, figured that would be plenty. Well of course what ever you have is never enough. Check the mods I made so I could park 4-cars in my 3-car garage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT1PKWeScQo&list=PLpOcKSzessf5SqJFFHV3x6DDX1Ra9kFLf&index=6
Very cool video, Rich. Great planning on the in-construction use of the lift!! Didn't listen to the audio, but I was wondering what all those loose wires were at ceiling level.
I added the extra length to the romex wires prior to lifting the roof. After lifting the roof, I completed the rewiring project. I decked the lift so I would have a work platform. Without a car on the lift it took about 10 minutes for the platform to get back to ground level.
It took me about a week of part time work to prepare to lift the roof. Using the lift, it only took 30 seconds to lift it into place. We installed the pre built walls and got the sheeting and siding all done in one day. The trim and painting took just another day and one more day to do the mods on the high lift garage door. This was not a hard project. It did attract the attention of my neighbors during the project, but no one else had done this.
Rich
Rich,
Not gonna lie, I have a serious case of "garage envy" after watching your last video. The construction work was well planned and it shows (also kinda like the Corvette). Having a lift is every car buff's dream but very few can pull it off, especially in what appears to be a residential 3-car garage from the street view. Great job!!!!
Dave
You are right, that's my 2002 C5 Corvette. I bought it 10 years ago and it's still worth what I paid for it. The Fairlane gets more winter miles than the Corvette does.
I would have liked to build a 2-Car garage in the back yard but since I have a corner lot the set back requirements severely restrict what I could have done. For one thing, no driveway's allowed on the street along side of my property. I'm okay with what I have.
Rich, VERY NICE job. I really thought installing the lift prior to the roof lift was genius. I don't even have a garage, I have a carport!
You may have noticed in the video where I say that the reroof was because of a recent hail storm. I've lived in this area since 1971 and been a home owner since 1974. In that time I have had the roof on my home replaced 8 times because of hail. I've had cars damaged too, but the best place for a car in a hail storm is in the garage. That's the #1 reason to keep my cars indoors. The lift is a big deal for sure. My first oil change standing up was pure pleasure. I'm sure that we all have squirmed around under a car way too many times. The one disadvantage to a drive on lift is if you need the car off its wheels to work on something. You still have to jack it up. But, there is a jacking tray included with the lift and I have a bottle jack that is air operated. A decent size air compressor is one of the items that lives in my new shed.
Raising the roof was really a cheap project. I don't remember the exact cost, but all in, it was less than $1,000 (including the electrical work and relocating the gas line.) I found a lightly used lift in the metro area for $1,500 and of course no shipping charge. I had thought about doing this for a few years, but the roof repair because of the hail storm really got me going. That saved me some money.
Rich
Has anyone removed an engine with the transmission attached? I plan to remove the hood and radiator, but not the grill and front nose piece. I have a neighbor that has a standard engine hoist and stand that I can borrow. I think the combined weight of engine and transmission is about 850 - 900 pounds. The hoist I will borrow does have an equalizer on it.
Rich
Very tough to do with the front sheet metal still on. I looked at doing that a few years ago when I replaced my engine because I can't get to the bellhousing bolts unless everything is pulled forward a few inches. I decided it may be possible with a high block and tackle, but nowhere close with cherry picker
"No where close" clinches it. I'll stop thinking about it and just drop the transmission. I've already got lots of practice doing this anyway.
Thanks,
Rich
I dropped a 460 with C6 in mine with a regular engine hoist and load leveler. Just removed the hood. As I recall, I did it alone.
However, it's an iffy affair. I did it that way because I don't have a way to install the transmission separately. YMMV
I guess alot of it would depend on your particular engine hoist. I had to borrow my next door neighbors just to get the engine alone out with the bumper still on the car. Mine wouldn't even reach back far enough, and I'm pretty sure even his wouldn't have been tall enough to get the tranny over the sheetmetal with the engine/tranny at the pretty drastic angle it would have had to be at. Besides, Rich has a lift and has already said removing the tranny is a fast operation for him. My car has a battle scar from that removal.
Many of the less expensive engine hoists claim a 1500 pound capacity, but that is only if the boom is set to the shortest length, which is basically too short to pull pretty much any engine from a vehicle. Even with the boom extended to it`s longest length, it will likely be too short to pull the engine alone from a 57 with the front bumper still attached. And even if you could get the hoists hook onto the engine, at the full length, the hoists capacity is reduced to 500 pounds, which is not adequate for a complete Y Block anyhow. I have a heavier duty engine hoist, like the style that I used to rent from equipment rental stores in the 70s, but even that is sketchy for removing the FE and Toploader in one piece, as the combination of a narrow hood opening, tall radiator support, and the firewall shape, makes it riskier than I am willing to try. Considering how easy the front clip comes off these cars, I find it well worth the small effort to remove it. It provides so much more working space, reduces damage potential to the fenders and firewall, and if you want to clean, detail, or paint the firewall and engine compartment, so much easier.
I briefly thought about building a quad-pod to sit on the lift with a center lifting point that I could hang a come-a-long on. I could lift straight up with that and would have to roll the car to change position. Just seemed like too much of a chance for something to go wrong.
Safety trumps easy. I'll drop the transmission then put the cross member back in. That way I can leave the parking brake working. I've never tried my power brakes with the hydroboost unit not working. I'll also take off the adapter plate on the back of the engine, that will also remove the starter. Exhaust manifolds will also be off. I may pull the intake manifold too just to protect my EFI unit. The more I think about it, I should pull the alternator and PS pump. Got to remove them anyway. However when I reinstall the engine, I want everything back on. It's easier to do on the engine stand than in the engine bay.
Now that Rich mentions having a problem with reach on the lift he used, I will check with my neighbor and see if his will get far enough under the car to do the job.
----------
The option to remove the front clip popped up while I was responding. I'll think about it, but it seems like a lot of extra work and the possibility of damaging nicely painted sheet metal parts.
Is there something different with the AOD that you can't pull just the engine?
What I was thinking. I just had to pull my engine forward enough to get to the bellhousing bolts, then everything got pushed back and the tranny bolted back down. No reason to have to remove the tranny.
I've pulled several with FORDO leaving the trans in, I just don't know what would be different with an AOD?
I have the front sheet metal off my car and can easily install motor and transmission with a Harbor Freight hoist but that is a 302. Like Rich stated, and I never thought of it before, I doubt I could reach it with sheet metal installed.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-01-22 19:10
Is there something different with the AOD that you can't pull just the engine?
Nothing except I've never done that before. The AOD is pretty close to the dimensions of the original. I think it weighs a little more. I am thinking that to put it back together, I have to mate up the flex plate to the studs on the torque converter and that may be a challenge. Also, without the engine there needs to be something to support the front of the transmission. The car will not be on the lift for the engine removal and reinstall and won't be until it's back together and running. Once I get the engine back in the car, I can jack it up and put it on jack stands and get out my trusty creeper.
I don't want to overthink this project. However, I most certainly do want to solicit advice from the great bunch that hangs out on this website.
I would think a ratchet strap around the frame and under the front of the trans should be sufficient to support the trans.
Unistrut works great
When I have pulled engines, either stick or auto I just use a floor jack under the trans to support it. Lining up the torque converter bolts when reinstalling just takes a little juggling but isn't that hard.
If you have trouble reaching the two top bell housing bolts there are rubber plugs in the fire wall that can be removed from the inside and then use an extension and socket.
Rich,
My engine hoist is the Harbor Freight 2-Ton (they have a 1.5 Ton also) and with it fully extended the capacity is reduced to 1/2 ton (or 1,000 lbs), so it should be able to lift the combined weight of the engine and transmission. However, I agree completely with Rich that installing the engine/trans together would require the front radiator support and sheet metal removal. The first picture is my installation of engine in my original 57 (about 12 years ago). When I did that installation I had the transmission removed (to have it overhauled also) so the engine went in and then the transmission. Had to do that from underneath but it went okay.
I used that same hoist to raise up my Skyliner to remove the transmission from that car last year to put in new front seals. Had to get the bottom of the tires up 16.5" from the floor in order to clear the underside of the engine bay with the transmission on the transmission jack (cheap Harbor Freight trans. jack), so had to build cribbing under the rears and some additional cribbing under my front ramps. The cribbing was 4X6 pieces 12" long, all screwed together with construction screws so they couldn't slip apart. Seemed very solid to me (and I was the one under the car). It was all doable, but I was glad when it was over and the car was back on the ground.
Good luck with your engine. I think your plan to remove the transmission first and then the engine seems the best. I do wonder if you could reinstall the engine (probably need some rear engine support) and then push the car back up onto the lift for the transmission install. It would be a lot easier than the way I did it.
Dave
Dave,
Great photo of the engine on the hoist. To minimize movement of the car, I plan to pull the engine with the car sitting under the hoist, no car on the hoist. That way, I can roll the car back after lifting the engine. I can then roll the engine on the hoist to the engine stand and then push the car back into the garage. So, I will need to either remove the transmission or support it in position.
I was looking at the front "V" shaped nose piece on the car. I could not remember if that was on the car when it was painted or not. It was not on the car, so I can remove this without breaking the paint if I have to. To gain additional room, the front bumper would have to go too. I'll send the engine on the hoist picture to my friend to see if his lift is similar.
It looks like you have a two sheave pulley on the harmonic balancer but there is a gap where a third sheave would fit. Mine is a three sheave and is stock and, I need all three.
I had thought I would mount the alternator/A/C compressor/PS pump on the engine before installation. I see you have not done this. Why?
I have considered removing the radiator support to repair some old rust damage that is directly under the battery. I'll see better what it looks like when I have the engine out.
I also noticed that your firewall is red, mine is white and that is original paint. The white on the exterior of the car is a brighter white than the Ford Colonial White. I will likely have a couple of rattle cans made up in my color to repaint the firewall.
Rich
- the engine alone will come out without removing the hood...over the fender
- my Mickey Mouse picker was built too high off the floor. With the car setting on the wheels, the picker would hit the tie rods. The reach is too short...it would hit the bumper or nose...if it didn't, it was way too close for comfort. With weight on it, the crappie casters won't roll over a fly turd! Needless to say, the picker is now heavily modified with longer reach, lower to the floor, enforced everywhere, and added the transmission/rear end plate option.
- for installation of heavy things, I made a whole set of alignment bolts. Just a couple of long bolts with the heads cut off, ground to somewhat of a point and slotted for easy removal with a screwdriver.
Concerning the AC compressor and PS pump, back in the early 80s, I worked for 5 years as an engine Re & Re guy, so I replaced literally 1000 engines during that time, and we very rarely disconnected the AC lines, and never removed the PS pumps. We always unbolted the AC compressor and PS pumps, with the lines attached, and either wired it up for clearance, or were able to lay the pump or compressor down on the frame or rad support. Also, the only times we ever removed the transmission, was if the customer wanted it sent out for a rebuild while the engine was out, which rarely was the case. We didn`t have lifts, so usually unbolted everything up top first, then jacked the front of the vehicle up on jackstands, unbolted all the bottom stuff, and used a floor jack to support the transmission. On Fords with torque convertor studs, I always rotated the convertor so that the studs were at 12,3,6,and 9 oclock position, with a torque convertor drain plug at 6 oclock, and rotated the crankshaft so the flexplate holes were in the same positions. That would get everything close enough, so that when you had the engine just about all the way flush with the bellhousing, you could use a small flat blade screwdriver to make any minor adjustments with the drain plug to get the studs to pop into place. The engine job had us bring the car into the shop, pull the old engine, strip off, clean and paint all the sheetmetal parts, (oil pan, timing cover, valve covers, clean up the gasket surfaces of the intake and exhaust manifolds, water pump, fuel pump etc, check and clean all the pushrods, rocker arms, etc , and replace anything that needed replacing. Roll the old engine on a cart to the core strip down area, and pickup the fresh long block. The cam and timing chain setup was already installed, but we had to install the new lifters, the pushrods, rockers, etc, adjust or , on non adjustable valvetrains,check the hydraulic lifter preload. Put all the "tin" back on, and paint the engine, prime the oiling system, install it, fire it up and break in the cam and lifters, set the timing and carb, and road test the vehicle. Each guy would do 3 or 4 a week, sometimes one a day. If it was a custom job, where the customer wanted his original engine back, that would usually take 3 or 4 days, so you would do a couple of "1 dayer " jobs in between. I was in my mid 20s back then, and almost everything at that time was a carbed, V8 RWD American car, or a 2WD or 4x4 truck. Also did a lot of vans and some medium duty trucks, like Ford Louisvilles, COEs, and F 500-700 gas 361/391s, and 366/427 Chevy trucks. I sure couldn`t go at that pace anymore!
I'm a little late to the party rich, but the "raising of the garage roof" video was pretty cool. Very well executed my friend.
Quote from: CobraJoe on 2022-01-23 16:42
I'm a little late to the party rich, but the "raising of the garage roof" video was pretty cool. Very well executed my friend.
Thanks for the comments.
Rich
Quote from: 59meteor on 2022-01-23 14:44
Concerning the AC compressor and PS pump, back in the early 80s, ........
As I have about .001% of your experience, I am paying attention. I had figured on evacuating the A/C system and removing the compressor. Since it sits where the generator used to be, it would be easy to leave it unmolested. Same with the power steering pump. In Dave's photo of the engine on the hoist, I can see that the distributor has been removed. Since that sort of tucks under the back of the firewall, I had thought it would be easy to damage it on the reinstall. Perhaps the only thing I will leave on the engine is the bracket for the compressor and alternator and just rehang the bolt ons after the engine is safely back in the car. One kicker is the adapter plate for the AOD. That has a gear starter mounted on it and it would have to be on the back of the block when the engine is reinstalled, also the flex plate.
I'm also wondering what plugs you guys are running. I have Autolite 46's in now. Are there any "modern" upgrades that make sense?
Rich
Rich,
Sorry for the delay in my response to your questions on my engine installation. We were gone most of the day yesterday and I'm just getting back to the site.
When I installed the engine I just wanted to keep the engine as bare as possible to avoid any interferences when it went into the bay. The power steering pump/bracket and generator bracket were items that I felt could be installed after the engine was in place. They could also be left on the engine for install but it was just something else to watch out for when the engine went in place. The firewall on my Skyliner is colonial white. In fact, I had touched up the upper portion of the firewall in the attached photo using Rustoleum rattle can paint (Canvas White, gloss finish) that you can buy at about any hardware/lumber store. It matches pretty darn close to the original colonial white (probably not close enough for a patch on the exterior, but for engine bay and trunk it works pretty well).
Good luck with the engine install. Keep us posted on how it goes.
Dave
Ted Eaton in Texas is a top builder of Y-Blocks. He wrote up a buildup he did very close to what you want in the Y-Block Magazine a couple months ago.
The heads you want to use are casting # ECZ-G. Isky still has a number cams for Y-Blocks.
I have an Isky RPM-300 in one of my 57's it is mild, smooth idle, good power at all engine speeds.
Good luck with your build, glad to see someone using the 292. I think you will be happy with it.
Ron.
Ron,
Do you have a link to the magazine article?
Also, is this the cam that you have? I saw 4 in the catalog, but some seemed inappropriate for my use. https://iskycams.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=407
Rich
Y-Block magazine is a very small publication, under 600 copies by subscription and not on the internet.
But you can buy back issues.
Most of the top Y-Block builders and racers write for it and subscribe, They also have Y-B Nationals Drag Race
at the big Ford Nationals at Cordova and a smaller one in Calif every year.
Contact:
Y-Block Magazine
PO Box 1005
Ottawa, IL.
61350
I recommend it to all YB owners and fans.
I built an A-Frame to pull engines back in the 60's.
Used 4 10ft 2" plumbing pipes and an 8ft long 4" I beam and welded 4 slide-in couplers on the I beam.
With this you can angle the engine and trans enough to put it in with a floor jack on the trans tailhousing.
Never had to disconnect an engine from trans.
Goodluck,
Ron.
I too thought about making a lifting frame that I could mount on my lift, but I do have access to a friends 2-ton engine hoist and engine stand. I'm sure that I can set my engine on the ground after I strip it and use the hoist to put the new engine on the stand and then put the stripped engine back on the crate that the new one was shipped to me in.
I've decided that I have to pull the transmission separately. I have lots of practice at this and there will be less chance of damaging something.
With the engine bay empty, I will try to tweak the tubing that goes to the hydroboost unit a little. That's so close to the exhaust manifold that access to plugs 7 & 8 is only from under the engine and even then it's very close work.
Rich
Back in the day, I took the 390 out of my car by myself without a hoist. I stripped the engine down to the long block, no bellhousing or flywheel. Pushed the thing on the ground and jacked the car up enough to drag the block out from under the car. I didn't have the money for the hoist.... Probably lucky I am not dead from doin' things like that!
When I was 16, the guy that loaned out his set of chain falls was really popular. We had a falling out and I bought one of those cable come-a-longs. Still have it!
I've used a chain hoist, link belt lift and come-alongs over the years. My first engine swap was from a large tree limb! Every one after with my original "A" frame which I still have. Most everybody I knew borrowed it so I didn't need to store all that steel very often. It never got stolen because no one wanted to store it either. If I needed it most everyone knew where it was.
An engine and trans could be tilted about 80 degrees and lifted about 5 ft off the ground with it.
Ron.
ROK,
That cam you posted looks a little milder than mine which is an RPM-300 which was mild back in the 60's when I bought it. Cams have had a lot of development in the last 50 years, that cam should be ok for you.
Goodluck,
Ron.
Ron,
It may be too late to make any changes. It should be shipped in about two weeks. My last conversation was that I should expect it about March 14th.
I plan to start removal of the engine/transmission on the 28th. We've got mild temps right now, but Monday night the bottom falls out. Big cold front heading our way and it will be cold all week. My 5kw garage heater won't make it very nice in the garage when it's that cold outside even though the garage is fully insulated and it's attached to the house.
Rich
After the cold weather last week, this week is a heat wave. Monday, I pulled the transmission and got the engine ready for removal and Tuesday a friend came over and within an hour we had it out.
When I went to remove the harmonic balancer it came out with very little effort. As I was mounting the puller, rotating the screw, it would not get tight, then I realized that it was coming out with finger pressure on the screw. That did not seem right, but it is what it is. The shaft is damaged where the seal rides on it, so I'll get a Speedi-Sleeve to solve that problem. The engine should be here about March 14th and I've got plenty to do to get ready for that.
I have a new speedometer cable to install and I have a new accelerator (cable linkage) to put in too. That will mate up better with the EFI unit. Plus cleaning the engine bay and repainting the firewall white and the sides black. I'm taking the radiator to a shop today to have it checked and cleaned out. That's a requirement to maintain the warranty on the engine.
Rich
Hello Rich,
Glad to hear you are well under way on the engine project. One thing I wanted to point out on the firewall color (I believe I told you in an earlier post that my firewall on my 57 red/white Skyliner was white) is that the styletone or two-tone colors had the firewall painted both colors. The upper half of the firewall would be the colonial white and the lower half (below the pinch-weld on the firewall) would be red. I don't have a photo of my Skyliner firewall but I have a photo of my earlier 57 Club Sedan that I had prior to the Skyliner. That car was green/white but the photo shows how the firewall paint color scheme would be the same for the red/white. Nothing wrong with an all-white firewall either if that's your preference.
Good Luck and keep us posted on updates.
Dave
Well, isn't that cool!. My car was originally two-tone, but Inca Gold/Colonial White. The firewall is now Colonial White. However, the white I've used is brighter than the Colonial White, I'm pretty sure my red is the '57 Ford red.
I have not sanded the lower part of the firewall to see if it was Inca Gold. I also don't know if I could find a rattle can red that I could use on the lower part of the firewall. I'll think about this. Thanks for the picture.
Rich
Paint suppliers can mix the proper red and put it into a rattle can. There's two problems, they only have a short pot life just like mixed in a spray pot and they are expensive.
Rich,
I have found that Rust-Oleum gloss rattle can paint in "Sunrise Red" is a very close match to the "Flame Red" used on the 57 Fords. The other Rust-Oleum paint that is a close match is the "Canvas White" for the "Colonial White" used on the 57's. This Rust-Oleum paint is pretty widely available in hardware and lumber stores.
Good Luck,
Dave
So, who has reinstalled a Y-block with automatic transmission attached? Can you do it with the cross member installed? I'm estimating that total weight of engine/transmission is about 900#, so should not be an issue for the engine hoist. However, the center of gravity it going to move towards the rear quite a bit. Maybe so far that I won't be able to level the engine/transmission. I have thought about leaving the cross member out and putting a floor jack under the tail shaft to assist in leveling the assembly. Any other problems that I'm not thinking about?
My harmonic balancer has a nasty groove where the oil seal rides. I looked all over the internet and local suppliers for a sleeve for this 1-7/8" shaft. Zero luck. I've also sent that balencer to the Damper Dudes in California to rebuild it. I thought all I was getting from them was new rubber, but when I checked in with them I mentioned the sleeve problem and they told me that they will install one as part of the rebuild. Every once in a while you have to get lucky.
Has no one installed the engine/transmission as a unit?
Rich,
I have had 57 Ford engines in and out a couple of times and always either left the transmission in place with supports or pulled the transmission first and installed it last. The Ford shop manual indicates that the engine/transmission on the conventional car needs to come out separately also. It does appear to me that the engine/trans assembly could be shoehorned in there, but would require the removal of the radiator and support structure so the assembly could be moved into position at a lower angle. Not sure if that would be more work than placing the engine in place and then slipping the transmission in place, but something to consider. With your car lift setup, I believe I would do the transmission after the engine is in place, but you know better how much work that is since you have done it more than once.
Good Luck,
Dave
I kind of feel like a dummy now. I have an original maintenance manual. I could have looked that up too.
I have lots of experience removing this transmission. It's not that hard with the lift, but I was thinking this might be an opportunity to shortcut the process. I do have the hood off and the radiator out, but that's all.
Thanks for the response. I'll just do as the manual suggests. One complication is that the car is off the lift. I cannot use the engine hoist with the car on the lift. So I will have to get the car back on the lift without being able to drive it on. I do have a method to do this.
Rich
My engine was shipped today and according to the tracking information, it will be delivered Friday - Amazing.
I was not able to find a matching style of vacuum advance unit for my distributor. It's listed in Mac's, Jerry's, Concours Parts, etc, but no one has one. I did find one NOS unit on eBay, but too much money and it's still an old unit with rotten rubber in it. So, I went to AutoZone and they looked it up on their computer and it showed two units, one straight shaft, like mine, but also not available, and one with a dogleg shaft. I told them to order it and I now have it installed. I clamped the shaft in my vice and gently smacked it with a hammer and bent it around so that it fits. With military discount, it's less than $30 at AutoZone. Sure looks like it's going to work.
Rich
You have an original ball bearing breaker plate, not many of those around any more and they were only used for a couple of years, thats why the straight arm advance is hard to find. When your new engine shows up check the head casting numbers..
Rich, as Jim mentioned, that is an awesome og 57 ball bearing unit. They are nice but can wear out with time. Make sure it does not have too much play, and if so, you can still save it by putting a small spring to the rotating base plate and holding it to one side of the dizzy housing. that way you get rid of the play that can cause timing wandering. I believe this will even work better with an electronic pickup, that does not put any forces to the cam lobes, as conventional breaker points would.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-03-17 09:02
You have an original ball bearing breaker plate, not many of those around any more and they were only used for a couple of years, thats why the straight arm advance is hard to find. When your new engine shows up check the head casting numbers..
When you are not a Y-Block expert, (come to think of it, I don't think I'm an expert at anything anymore-except perhaps BS) you don't know what you have, only what you need. I've had such good luck finding the parts I need, the stopper on the vacuum advance unit had me scrambling. However, I've tested my modified unit and it is working fine.
My distributor seems to be in fine condition. No wobble or wiggle. It does have the port for manual oiling and I think I've done that about once per year (I put on about 1,500 miles per year).
FedEx tells me that the engine will be delivered to my home tomorrow afternoon. It was sent from S&J engines in Seattle Wednesday afternoon. By 9:30 pm it was in Oregon, by 4:30 am Thursday morning it was in Colorado. They flew the damn thing here. It must weigh about 700# in its crate. I'm not up to snuff on shipping costs, but it seems like a deal at $175.
Rich
It does seem like a deal on shipping. FedEx wanted $686 to ship a 29# packaged "A" pillar, to Hawaii.
Thats an unbelievable shipping price :001:
My wife bought her Escape from Carmax, it was in Salt Lake and the shipping charge to LA was only $149, I thought that wasn't bad..
Trouble, not much, but here it is.
I need to remove the sheet metal piece that sits on the engine at the place where the oil filter mounts. I've removed the big nut that the oil filter screws onto and looking at the new engine, it appears that this piece just sits against the casting. However, with a moderate amount of force, it is not popping off.
Suggestions? - {Never mind. Once I found that I could buy this part, I put more force on it and it finally gave way and I did not damage it.}
Rich
There is something that pissed me off this afternoon. Almost all of the gasket mating surfaces are painted as well as the spark plug holes. I have always taped off mating surfaces before painting. I've seen on the internet various opinions on this, but for me, and especially in the spark plug holes, this is a no go. I've already got almost all of the gasket surfaces cleaned, but haven't started on the spark plug holes yet.
Comments?
Rich
Paint on the exhaust ports wont hurt, just smoke a little until it burns off, or use a little sand paper to remove it before installing. I think I would remove it on the timing cover surface. There is a tool called a spark plug thread chasing, it's like a tap.
I'm almost done with the paint removal. I am not so much worried about the spark threads but rather the tapered edge where the plug seats into the head.
Whether it's right or wrong, it is not what I expected. Since I never paint gasket mating surfaces and have never seen anyone else do it, it does not seem right to put a material into the mix that will likely deteriorate in the hot environment. If you've ever watched any of the "RED LINE Rebuild" series, you will see them always protect the gasket surfaces from paint.
Rich
Yes the tapered area should be cleaned and I should have mention that. I like clean threads so I can get the most ground area possible. When ever I have machine work done I always tell them not to paint anything..
I already told them that their paint job has cost me more time and effort than actually painting the engine. I'll get over it, I suppose.
Rich
I have an old set of plugs I put in the holes before painting, I'm sure they could have done something similar. Did you check the head casting numbers? I see they used a 56 block, which is fine..
What's your clue that it's a '56 block? Yes, the heads are correct.
I've got all of the offending paint off. I used a wood plug with a rag soaked in acetone. Had all clean in 15 minutes.
I did some more painting this morning and I will start reassembly soon.
I have a Radio Club event tomorrow and that will kill a nice warm day, It's not supposed to snow again until Monday. March and April are our snowiest months, but there is warm weather between snows.
Rich
Ya know, sometimes all you have to do is read the instructions.
The gasket set has a little paper with "Installations Instructions."
Item #1 Clean Mating Surfaces of all foreign material. I'm going to put paint in the "foreign material" category.
Rich
The "A" suffix in the block casting number indicates 1956 292-312
A "B" suffix is 56-57 292-312 and I have no idea what or if there is any difference?
One of my 292 is built from a 55 272 block.
Looks like you got a nice engine for that price :001:
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-03-18 20:34
There is something that pissed me off this afternoon. Almost all of the gasket mating surfaces are painted as well as the spark plug holes. I have always taped off mating surfaces before painting. I've seen on the internet various opinions on this, but for me, and especially in the spark plug holes, this is a no go. I've already got almost all of the gasket surfaces cleaned, but haven't started on the spark plug holes yet.
Comments?
Rich
That would frost my package. Did they also spray the lifter valley?
No, no paint in the lifter area or in the valve train or the bottom of the engine. As much as it pissed me off when I saw it, I got all of the excess paint removed in about 90 minutes. I had a piece of wood dowel that was a good size for wrapping a rag around it and dipping it in Acetone and then inserting it down the spark plug hole. I thought the spark plug hole would be the toughest to clean out, but it was actually the easiest. I still have to clean the rear of the engine where the transmission bolts up, but since it is on the engine stand that is not easy to get at.
I'm not so much pissed now as just disappointed that they painted all of those gasket mating surfaces. If they painted mine, it's likely they painted every engine the same way. I would be surprised if I'm the first to complain.
Rich
I can understand cleaning the gasket surfaces and the plug holes, but I wouldn't bother with cleaning the paint off the back of the block where the tranny mounts. By the way I think you got a heck of a deal on the motor with shipping. I just spent $6800 on my factory 289 HiPo I had rebuilt locally for my 65 K code fastback.
Thanks for the comments. I hope to never see the back of the engine again after this project. So, I'll still clean the mating surfaces. Right now, it's snowing and it's cold in the garage and the Explorer is clean, so I'm not going to put it outside and then warm up the garage. I'll take a day off from the project, mostly. I did bring in the timing chain cover/water pump so I could figure out how my A/C compressor/Alternator brackets go back together. The brackets came with the A/C unit, but I modified them so I could use two belts over the compressor. It was slipping with one belt. I cleaned all the brackets and repainted them. Well, It's all figured out, but I want to buy some more new bolts. Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer and dry, I'll get back at it then.
Rich
Well Punk, "Do you feel Lucky?" said Clint Eastwood.
Yes, today I was lucky - twice. My original engine had a 9/16" bolt on the harmonic balancer, replacement engine requires 5/8" bolt. The lucky part, Ace hardware has a grade 8 bolt exactly like I need right on the shelf. I did do a little research and yes, both sizes are common.
I also snapped off a new 5/16" grade 5 bolt on the water pump with my torque wrench set at 13 foot pounds. It's one of the bolts that I have a shim on for my alternator bracket. With the bracket removed I was able to remove the bolt. It snapped right below the head. At least I did not have to remove the timing chain cover.
Back to the salt mines,
Rich
Well, I have the engine together. I've added the break in oil and I am running the oil pump, but not getting oil to the valve train. I am turning counter clockwise with a battery drill doing about 150 RPM. I could tell when the pump took a prime. After about 5 seconds it got harder to turn. Am I going fast enough? 150 RPM on the dist is like the engine turning 300 RPM,
Rich
Rich,
Can you connect an oil pressure gauge while you are turning the pump with the drill? It might give an idea when and how much oil pressure is being achieved with the drill turning the pump shaft. It might take some time before the oil makes its way up to the valve train, but it should show up. I think the drill speed should be sufficient to get the oil up there, but a pressure gauge would also give some idea of status.
Good Luck,
Dave
If you have a 1/2" corded drill, it would have the power to keep running without fear of killing your battery powered one.
I think you don't have enough drill motor. 300 RPM seams a little slow, oil is cold, clearances are tight, might take longer for the oil to get there.
It maybe they used a cam that is crossed drilled rather then grooved. The holes in the cam have to line up with the holes in the cam bearing before oil will go to the heads.
Yes, I have a more powerful drill and I will get it out. And I can attach a pressure gauge to the engine. Also, the guy at S&J said that I likely won't get oil to the top end unless the engine is turning. Today and tomorrow I can't spend much time on the engine. I made good progress yesterday and we now have a warming trend and that will be helpful.
He also told me that I am the only person to ever complain about paint on the gasket mating surfaces. Hmmm.
Rich
If it only gets oil to the top end when running you have a crossed drilled cam.
Does oil to the valve train have to pass through the cam?
Rich
The 1954-55 cam center journal was cross-drilled. The 56/ the oil was supplied to the heads through a groove cut in the bearing boss behind the actual bearing shell.
You have to spin the pump and measure with a pressure gauge to be sure the oil reaches the top end. Rotate the cam slowly and sparingly as the cam lube may get washed off. Sometimes the center cam bearing is installed incorrectly and will not allow oil to the head(s).
Read This - https://www.eatonbalancing.com/2021/12/31/y-block-top-end-oiling-woes/
Is your engine rebuilt or did they give you an exchange?
Thanks for the diagrams.
As to cam lube, I would imagine it's already gone. They power up the engine with an external motor to do their final checks as well as compression checks. I've thought about running the oil pump and then turning the engine with a wrench. Don't know if that helps or not.
Rich
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2022-03-24 01:32
The 1954-55 cam center journal was cross-drilled. The 56/ the oil was supplied to the heads through a groove cut in the bearing boss behind the actual bearing shell.
The oil is supplied through a grove in the cam shaft journal, A grove cut in the boss behind the bearing is a modification made by a builder, usually a hi performance builder not from the factory.
QuoteThey power up the engine with an external motor to do their final checks as well as compression checks.
... hmmpf ...
That's a new one to me ...
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-03-24 08:56
The oil is supplied through a grove in the cam shaft journal, A grove cut in the boss behind the bearing is a modification made by a builder, usually a hi performance builder not from the factory.
OEM assembly correct, but with the FYB valve-train oil deficiencies one of several modifications should have been performed. That's why I asked if it was a rebuild on his engine or a rebuilt exchange.
From the EATON ARTICLE -
QuoteModifications for top end oiling can include machining the groove in the center cam journal deeper, using a cam bearing with the oil groove on the outside of the bearing, or installing a groove in the center cam bearing hole that interconnects all three holes. The outside grooved cam bearing or putting a groove in the block circumvents the camshaft groove being relied upon to get oil to the top end of the engine. Machining the existing groove in the center journal of the camshaft deeper is relatively simple and easily performed by most machine shops. Using a cam bearing that has the oil groove on the outside diameter of the bearing is a special purchase item and care must be taken when installing that particular bearing as using a hammer and puck to install that center bearing can deform the bearing at its center simply making it too tight for the camshaft to fit in it when installing the cam. Those bearings are best installed using some kind of pull bar tool so that they are not shock loaded with a hammer and puck.
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2022-03-24 19:04
OEM assembly correct, but with the FYB valve-train oil deficiencies one of several modifications should have been performed. That's why I asked if it was a rebuild on his engine or a rebuilt exchange.
From the EATON ARTICLE -
I'm well aware of the things Ted does to modify but it isn't relative to the engine being discussed.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2022-03-24 21:21
I'm well aware of the things Ted does to modify but it isn't relative to the engine being discussed.
You forgot to add
IMO.
It applies to any FYB engine rebuild. The reason(s) are given (IMO).
IMO.......I think what Jim was saying it does not apply to Rich's engine, which this thread was about, not rebuilds in general, or in particular high $ rebuilds by guys like Ted. Rich did title the thread "........for my car". We just got off on a tangent.
Just a brief update. Last Saturday (4/2) a friend and the 20-year old son of a friend came over and we stuffed the engine back in the car. Prior to installing the engine I cranked the oil pump with a drill and got oil flowing. Then, with the distributor installed, I cranked with the starter and got 55 psi measured where the oil sending unit goes. I got 2 -3 minutes of run time over 5 cranking sessions, leaving time for battery recharges and cooling of the starter.
I removed the left side engine mount and then installed the engine. I should have removed the right side mount instead as I cannot get to the bolts on the left side without removing the oil filter. I did measure between the studs on the engine mounts and it will not fit with both installed, as is noted in the maintenance manual.
I've also modified the bracket for the new cable accelerator, which will also support the TV cable. Right now, most of the engine work is done, still have to install the radiator, battery bracket, connect some wires and install the transmission, which I have way too much experience with. I won't be able to work on it again until Saturday. Baring any problems, I hope to have it running in a week or so.
Rich
PS - My pictures are not showing up, and as I went back to look at other pictures, they too are not showing up. Don't know why.
engine 1.jpgengine 2.jpg
Not sure I can help with the pics.........but JFYI Joe posted some that did show.
Great progress Rich. May I suggest when you first start up don't let it idle. Turn the rpm up to a minimum of 2500 rpm and let it run at that rpm for about 20 minutes to ensure enough oil is splashed onto the cam and lifter for break in.
My instructions (warning) from the manufacturer is to run at 1,800 RPM for 15 minutes right after the first start up.
Cranking with the starter and no plugs got me 55 PSI and visible oil in the valve train. I'm feeling pretty good that all will be okay.
Rich
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2022-04-06 10:34Not sure I can help with the pics.........but JFYI Joe posted some that did show.
Rich,
I am not seeing any pictures, including some that I've previously posted. When I click on a picture, I get a new smaller window popup in the upper right corner that list the name of the picture file and an icon to click on to download the picture. it does not download. I looked at my setup options and can't see anything that would affect how pictures are viewed. I am using Windows 11.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Rich
Try a picture post here.....had trouble figuring out the "manage attachments" thing was in the preview look.
Ok, no thumbnail? Is this correct? Sorry for hijack.....
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-04-06 20:40My instructions (warning) from the manufacturer is to run at 1,800 RPM for 15 minutes right after the first start up.
Cranking with the starter and no plugs got me 55 PSI and visible oil in the valve train. I'm feeling pretty good that all will be okay.
Rich
That may be fine, just don't let it idle.
Again, I use IMGUR. It's free and easy.
Here's a link to a thread i started on how to use it:
https://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=7624.0
Picture post testing.
Y block 002.jpg
Edit, didn't work
Cobra Joe's link did not work for me and I'm wondering if anyone is seeing the recently posted images. I am not.
Rich
They did work, but now they don't. Something has definitely changed as you no longer have the tabs that allowed you to change fonts, go to Bold, italic or underline as well as style, color etc...
Even if you enter the code manually, it doesn't work. For example, this should make my text bold;
blah, blah, blah
but as you can see, it doesn't and shows the code in brackets, which should not be visible. If you look at my signature, the same issue is visible.
Whatever happened, I'm sure it's a minor problem as it was all working when James got it back up and running.
Images that I could see yesterday are now not showing up. Something is different today.
James is aware of it and is working on the problem. There is a testing board just below member rides. Let's use that for testing so we don't cog up the threads.
Rich,
Glad to hear that James is working on the photo upload/display problem.
Me, I'm taking a break. Just achieved another milestone. Got the transmission back in the car. I have noticed that it is getting to be more than a mile between the milestones.
The rear transmission mount does not align with the holes in the cross-member. Off by about almost a full bolt diameter. I'll have to loosen the engine and tweak it over. I'm half done fighting the transmission coolant lines. Finally got them attached to the radiator, now just have to get them attached to the transmission. It looks like the transmission grew about 2 millimeters, just enough to cause a fight. Sunday I laid out the bolts/nuts that I would need today. It appears that someone broke into my garage overnight and stole the 4 nuts to the torque converter. The thief likely noticed them in the baggie labeled "torque converter". I know it's hard to believe, but this is not the first time that this has happened. Fortunately, the nut store is only 1/2 mile away.
Soon the wrenching will be complete and I can light a fire in this thing.
Rich
You must have the same gremlins that come at night to steal that I have :003:
Yes, it's amazing what goes on in the garage when no one is watching.
I did get the transmission lines connected. Then, I went to install the driveshaft. My task lighting has improved over the years, and as I was placing the bearing caps on the differential yoke I notice that I could slide the U-joint back and forth. I measured a full 1/10 of an inch in end play.
I've had a vibration starting at about 55mph with this car for a quite a while. Ive tried several things including replacing the front yoke on the drive shaft and getting the drive shaft balanced. No joy. I just ordered a new yoke for the differential, hopefully this will solve that problem.
Tomorrow I'll tweak the engine alignment, get my linkages connected and the electrical reconnected. I bought antifreeze today. I did look in my manual, this thing takes 5 gallons of coolant. I didn't measure what I took out, but it did not seem like that much.
Rich
I am not able to see or open any images either.
Those same gremlins place every dropped bolt and nut to the geometric center of the car as well!
Okay, back to business.
I really wish I could post a picture. I've managed to lose track of where one wire goes. On the firewall there is a bundle of wires going across right at the seam. Very near the distributor two wires come out of this bundle a red one that goes to the resistor and a black one. The end is broken off and I am not sure where it is to go. It's pretty short and may go to the coil.
I can email a picture if that helps.
I just have 4 bolts to put in the transmission and I can start the engine.
Rich
The black wire is your 12v starting feed to coil plus. A black wire from resister also goes to the coil for reduced voltage for regular operation. the Back wire in harness should only have power is start position.
Tom,
Thanks. It looked like the only place it was long enough to go, but I did not want to be guessing.
I appreciate the assistance,
Rich
Well, it runs. My guess on the timing was so close that it fired up on the first cranking. The bad news is that I have a water leak at the t-stat housing. I'm guessing that maybe the t-stat may have slipped a little and is caught outside of the recess that it should normally be in. I'll get that fixed.
So, as many of you know, hearing it roar to life is a good feeling.
Rich
congrats.........now get ready to drive it to Texas!!
Rich,
Amarillo is only 430 miles from my house, about 7 hours. I'll be there for lunch. What's on the menu? Oh wait - I still need to install a new differential yoke, and that's no joke.
Rich
Rich,
Regarding the differential yoke issue, do you mean that the u-joint will slide side to side in the yoke or that the cup diameter is smaller than the yoke radius?
James
The U-Joint will slide to side in the yoke. I measured 0.100" of total lateral movement. I have a friend that was teaching automotive technology at a local community college. He said that 0.030" was allowable. I assumed that is measured from center to max off center position. In that case, my movement would be 0.050", almost double the allowable. When you look at the stops in the yoke you can see that it is well worn. (My new LED work light make it very clear this was a problem.) I'm guessing that there was a time when the bolts were loose and that caused the wear. My new yoke will arrive today. I'd post a picture if I could.
After all the money I've been spending under the hood, today, I ordered new carpet for the interior.
Rich
Not that it matters now, but I'm curious what you are using for a driveshaft since you went to the AOD. Aluminum? When I did my setup using the Mark VIII driveshaft, I changed to a 1" extended differential yoke that used a heavier u-joint than the OEM '57.
You are aware that there are actually very few u-joint "bodies". The large variation in joints comes from different caps that have the same size needle bearing diameter, thus making a conversion joint pretty easy to do. I think that includes variations in length, diameter and style. (I wanted to underline "length")
Rich,
I am using the stock drive shaft with one minor modification. The shaft is about 1" too short so I bought a new front yoke that is 1.5" longer than the stock unit. It's from Ford and is a heavy duty racing unit with a 1310 - 1330 U-Joint (I think I'm remembering that second number correctly. ) It has to have the 1310 on one half to mate to the existing driveshaft.
By the way, I had the vibration before I altered the drive shaft.
I did get the new yoke for the differential today. That needs to be replaced regardless.
Rich
PS - Do you have any idea when the ability to post photos will be restored?
Rich
OK, I asked because there were two different U-joint cap diameters for Ford 1310 style connections. Some were 1.062" diameter and some were 1.125", so obviously a 1.062 cup would be loose in a 1.125" yoke. Ford reportedly increased the diameter to keep the cups from distorting if over tightened. However, it sounds like that's not the case with yours.
Be sure to use a new crush sleeve to set preload when you install the new yoke.
James
I'm going to be surprised if in fact that .100 movement is due to a worn original yoke. My money is on a wrong u-joint, or more specifically, a wrong u-joint cap.
How does your new yoke measure between the ribs/stops compared to the old one?
I don't know any more than everyone else about the posting photos issue. I know James is working on it when he can, and hopefully he can find a solution.
Well Rich, be surprised.
Prior to deciding that my yoke was defective. I found the proper dimensions, and checked mine. I also measured the out to out on the bearing caps on the U-joint and I measured the diameter of the bearing caps. Everything is just fine except for the yoke and yes, it's 0.100" too wide. I just put the new yoke on the end of the drive shaft and it's a perfect fit. I assume that all 1310 type U-Joints are all the same. The one I have in the car I put in right after I got the car 11 years ago (12,000 miles ago.) The original joint was shot. Rust in the caps and some of the needle bearings were broken.
I'm also not sure how you get a wrong U-joint cap. I went to the parts store, asked for a replacement for my car and got one that fit into the driveshaft. There must be a thousand cars that use the 1310 U-joints. 11 years ago, I would have taken the drive shaft to the basement where I have a large vice and used sockets to drive out the old caps and reset the new one's. To put it back in the car, I would have crawled under and done the job with poor lighting. Now, I can do this standing up with good lighting. It's likely been defective as long as I've had the car.
I should get this replaced this afternoon. - Well, that's not going to work. I should have checked on parts first. Crush sleeve and "O" ring will be delivered Wednesday.
I also forgot to mention that all of the damage is on one side of the yoke, so it could have been way out of position.
Rich
I've got the pinion out of the differential and all of the bearings, race surfaces and gear look great. I've also determined that even though the new yoke is a little tight, it will fit fine. The "O" ring and crush sleeve are supposed to arrive tomorrow.
Now, I am thinking that I ought to remove the entire gear assembly. I have a very minor leak and I've already bought the gasket for this eventual project. In my life in construction, we would call this "scope creep.' The scope of the project continues to increase along the way.
I found online that the gear assembly weighs 68 pounds, that likely includes the pinion assembly which is already out of the car. I will contact a friend to assist with this, I don't want to damage me or the gears.
Rich
Any wisdom on installing the crush collar?
The original manual says Tighten nut until it takes 8-12 inch lbs of torque to rotate the pinion bearings.
A search of the internet turned up a listing of all torque values for all Ford 9" differentials. This one says.
Tighten nut until it takes 15-20 inch lbs of torque to rotate the pinion bearings.
That's almost double what the service manual says.
I did get the gear set out of the differential this morning, installed a new gasket and cleaned up the case and put it all back together with new axle seals too.
Just keep in mind that the 57 9" is a one year design, so other listings are probably for later 9".
Setting up pinion preload and ring and pinion backlash is something I leave to the professionals, I always remove the third member and take it to them..
No, I did not know that '57 was a different differential. This website lumps all 9" units together.
https://www.strangeengineering.net/ford-9-inch-torque-specs/
I'll stick with the information in the '57 manual.
I've never done this before, but I'm not worried about it. Even if I screw it up, another crush sleeve is only $5 bucks. I watched a pretty good YouTube video on the process and I have a friend that taught automotive technology at Front Range C.C. and if I need him to assist, he will.
Rich
PS - I did look for something about the differences in these differentials, but did not find anything except this; https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/ford-9-inch-differentials - it does not mention differences with the '57, but does note that it was the first of the 9" differentials.
The 8-12 in Lb value is typically for used bearings and the higher value is for new bearings. I clamp the yoke in a large vice on my heavy steel work bench and use a 4 foot cheater pipe on a breaker bar so that I can add load in small increments. Tighten a little and check rotational torque, repeat until you achieve the required torque.
James
Rich, Too bad we can't post pictures but the main difference in the 57 compared to later is in the pinion area, 57 will have a large seal, later a small seal is the easy way to see the difference.
Yes, I do have the large seal. I am guessing that the skirt on the yoke it to protect the face of the seal.
Now, as to the crush sleeve adjustment.
It is entirely possible that I am either the most skillful or most lucky first timer on adjusting a crush sleeve.
I got the correct size crush sleeve today. When I got home from the RR Museum, I put the pinion assembly together and cranked the yoke into my vise. It took quite a bit of torque to remove all of the play. I checked the amount of play with each stroke of the wrench. I went from zero turning resistance to 5 inch pounds in one stroke. I then cranked lightly once more and tested the result and got 9 inch pounds. I am stopping at this point. I am between the 8 - 12 as noted in the manual and I think it would be easy to do too much. Two crush sleeves came in the package, they are assuming that there is a good chance of screwing up.
Rich
That is good news :001:
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-04-15 15:56After all the money I've been spending under the hood, today, I ordered new carpet for the interior.
Rich
Can you give a little more info about this? Is this the molded carpet with the heavy jute backing and where did you order from? I will need to order carpet sometime down the line.
I got it from Rockauto, the first place I look for stuff that I don't need right away.
https://www.rockauto.com/?carcode=1435194&parttype=1264
It is the "Loop with mass backing." $239.79 + tax & shipping.
I can post pictures on YouTube if you want to see what it looks like.
Rich
I think the picture feature is working again.
This is a test.
Rich
Pictures of the pinon yoke I replaced.
On the picture of the bad side, you can see that some metal got scrunched down and flowed onto the base. Seems like a hard thing to accomplish.
Rich
Motor looks great, Rich. Had we been able to post pics the past 3 or 4 weeks, I'd never had made my comment about going to be surprised if it was a worn yoke!! wow......but not really worn, looks like more of a misalignment when previously tightened down.
Rich,
I've actually been wondering if the damage was done at the factory. I don't see how that metal could be deformed by bolting in a U-Joint. Anyway, it's now a paper weight.
Rich
My carpet just arrived. It looks great. It's also heavy and will likely be a lot of work to get it installed. It's also WAY better that the one currently in the car.
Rich
Had no idea they sold stuff like that, but I do buy most of my parts from them. Those look great. I hope they fit as good as they look. I should add them to our suppliers list. Thanks for posting
Rich,
I bought it from Rockauto, but it was shipped from Alabama. I don't think Rockauto is anything but a middleman reseller, but their prices are usually very good. I've had items come to me from three different warehouses on one order.
Rich
ACC in Anniston, AL is the carpet king. They supply carpet kits to a gazillion vendors.
I've been to their website before. I just did a dummy order and it appears that Rockauto is less expensive than buying directly from them.
Rich
It's been one of those weeks. After the initial startup of the engine, which went fine. I started the car once more; it ran for about 5 minutes then died. Until today, I've not been able to get it restarted.
I finally figured out that the engine was getting flooded. I cleaned out the cylinders, cleaned the plugs and then tried to figure out what was causing the problem. I checked all the wiring and connections and all was fine. Finally, last Tuesday I called Holley. I don't know if they were helpful or lucky. Anyway, the tech had me install new firmware on the EFI. That stopped the excess fuel, so I hung up with him. Then I figured out that NO fuel was being delivered. So, after a little while I tried to start it again and then it was dumping excess fuel again. I cleared the cylinders and turned off the lights in the garage.
This afternoon (Friday) was the first time I touched the car since talking to Holley on Tuesday. I deleted the firmware and reinstalled it and what do you know, it started right up. I let it warm up, set the idle speed and reset the timing. Now that it was running and warm, I ran the transmission through the gears and added the fluid that was spilled when I had the transmission out of the car.
I'm taking the credit for getting it started, but if you know what "BTSOM" means that is a better description of what just happened.
Rich
Rich,
Great to hear that the engine is up and running and the fuel issues are straightened out. Have you had a chance to road test the car to check if the change to the pinion yoke has solved the vibration issue?
Good Job,
Dave
Dave,
Yesterday, I put about 15 miles on the car, but never over about 45. I need to go on the interstate to see if this issue is fixed.
Right now, I've got the seat out and the old carpet out and the front portion of the new carpet in place. It seems like every project is a minor battle. This molded carpet is STIFF!. My first impression was that the molding was not done properly, but now that I have it stuffed into all of the corners nice and tight, it is laying very nicely on the transmission tunnel and there are even cutouts and bumps molded to fit the lumps on the floor in the foot area of the drivers side. One missing feature was that they did not make a hole for the headlight switch. I have the grommet from the old carpet and was going to use that, but the hole I cut is a nice tight fit. I'll use the grommet for the drain tube from the A/C unit.
At the end of the day I was trying to punch pilot holes for the bolts for remounting the accelerator. I was under the car with an awl and I had my wife inside the car with a stick holding the carpet down so I could punch through. I managed to get only one hole through the carpet. This stuff is so heavy and thick that it's hard to work with. Today, I'll take my heat gun to heat the awl and see if that makes it easier to push through. I know from past experience that you should not drill through carpet. If the bit grabs the yarn it will pull it through and leave a very noticeable area of missing yarn.
I also think they screwed up the back 1/2 of the carpet. It's too long and they did not finish the edge that meets up with the metal frame under the front of the back seat. The front carpet is edge bound in all areas where it is exposed. None of the back carpet is edge bound. The sides are under the sills and the front is under the back of the front 1/2. I'll contact Rockauto tomorrow about this. Since the rear is also molded, it's tough to make a straight line for cutting and if you are short there is no fix. (Now that I think about it, I wonder if that carpet should go up the face of the area under the front of the rear seat? Anyone know?)
I also don't want to think about reinstalling the seat then taking it out again for when the carpet issue is corrected. If they say it was not a fabrication error, I will find someone local that can do this. That being said, the carpet is far superior in quality to what was in the car.
I did purchase felt to put under the previous carpet, this also had an aluminum foil coating. It's nice stuff and I don't remember what I paid for it, but if someone has a 2-door car and wants it, let me know and I'm sure we can work something out.
Rich
I just spent some time with the rear carpet. It's pretty clear to me that it was made for a 4-door car. It won't fit. Bump outs along the side are correct, but in the wrong place. I also checked my order and I did select one for a 2-door car. Bummer. I'll call Rockauto in the morning.
Rich
Rich,
I checked some photos I have of my 57 Club Sedan regarding the joint of the rear floor carpet to the seat bottom and it appears that the carpet ends at the vertical joint to the front seat support. My car had the same vinyl as the seat edges covering that vertical wall below the seat bottom. I think this area of the car was original but no way to verify for sure.
My 57 Skyliner also has the rear floor carpet edge mating up to the vertical support for the seat bottom but on this car the vertical wall is painted and not covered. Not sure what you will find when you talk with Rockauto but thought I would send along this info as an FYI.
Good Luck,
Dave
Dave,
Your photo with the red carpet is what I need, what I have just won't work. I'll get pictures tomorrow. The car is up on the lift right now, put away for the evening. I see no way to modify the stuff I have to work with this car. If the foot well is aligned, then the molded areas on the sides are off by about 6". I would imagine that they will correct this problem, but it will likely take 10 days to get the carpet, like when I ordered it the first time. I did open the package when it arrived, but did not do a detailed inspection until I actually tried to install it.
Thanks for the pictures. If someone has a picture of the backseat floor area in a 4-door car please post them.
Rich
First off, it's not possible to call Rockauto. I did call their corporate office and was told (by recording) to fill out a form online describing my problem. If I wanted a refund, that form works fine, if I want to correct the carpet not fitting properly, it does not work.
Now, the bad news. The carpet I have matches exactly the photo of the carpet on the Rockauto website. I also called ACC Carpets and talked to their customer service person. They say that what I have is correct for my car. I would have a hard time believing that I am the only person that has ordered this carpet, or that I have an unusual car. My car is the same as the pictures Dave posted below. ACC has a screw up. They do agree that all exposed edges should have a binding.
I don't know where this is going, more to follow.
Here is the video I will send to Rockauto and ACC.
https://youtu.be/gES7RSM7cTo
Rich
I had a similar issue on a wagon carpet install. I found some binding tape and had it sewn to the edge to finish it. Neither side was finished like yours.
Did you try over lapping the front onto the rear section for the -under the front seat section?
Also note that the floor pan most that likely is the same on both coupes and sedans. The wagon dont have the seat bottom wall. So what you might have is a universal fit rear section that you need to trim down. If it were a wagon that section would just keep going back under the seat.
I've been informed that this is a task for the customer. I've got a good start on cutting the carpet, sneaking up on the correct size. My knees need a break.
Rich
Rich, a friend of mine is an upholstery guy and he always uses a steam to make the carpet fit unusual contours.
John
When I was installing my carpet, the upholstery guy cut the carpet to relieve it and him or I would sew the seam. I have a binding attachment for my sewing machine but I have no exposed edges. I bind small pieces of carpet for floor mats. When the mats get dirty, toss them and make new. I use the same carpet for mats that is installed in the car. When I occasionally helped (go-fer) a buddy that was a professional carpet installer, we used carpet tape to glue two pieces of carpet together. This carpet tape was like hot glue. Heat the glue, stuff the carpet pieces together. When cooled, the carpet would rip before the glue would fail. I found a non-heated carpet tape...more of a contact tape. This tape worked well for me in my car. No hot, running glue, no special tool and no glue burns. I found it on the Lowes shelf next to the hot glue carpet tape.
The carpet is a very fine product and it's molded to fit all of the contours of the floor. My only complaint was that the rear of the back seat carpet was not factory cut to fit and the edge is not finished. Rockauto offered to refund my money, I did not want that. ACC did offer to trim the carpet if I sent it back and if I asked, they would likely have finished the edge. I just cut the carpet to fit. (I did not want to send the carpet back - I have a use for the car and to install the seat and then remove it so I could install the rear carpet is a PITA.) It lays pretty flat. I did use a few spots of spray adhesive to hold it in place until I get the sills and front seat remounted.
They likely think I'm a jerk for complaining about this. It's just that the front fit PERFECTLY and all exposed edges were finished. Is it too much to ask for this in the rear? I don't think so.
I'm going to furnish a link to this thread for Rockauto and ACC.
Well, it's done! I gave it a bath and my wife and I will participate in the Golden Super Cruise this afternoon.
Looking at my pictures, I did see that I forgot to reinstall the right side kick panel, but it's ready to go back in.
I did have it up to 75 this afternoon with no vibration. And I have to do a minor adjustment to the TV cable on the transmission. Shifts are just a little late.
In the interior photo you can see a piece of stainless steel sheet metal behind the aftermarket gas pedal. Without this the mount crushed too much into the carpet
Whew!
In the not too distance future, I will post photos of a bunch of parts that I no longer have a use for. i hope someone will see something that they need.
Rich
Rich,
The car (and carpet) looks great and replacing the engine is no small task.
Well Done,
Dave
The car looks awesome Rich and I love the color; then again, I'm a little partial towards red/white combo. :002:
Congratulations getting it back on the road and running good :001:
Gentlemen,
Thanks for the kinds words. I think we all know what it's like to dive deep into a project and the great feeling when it's done.
This morning I did make one small addition. The return spring on the accelerator needed some help. I had some left over springs from LOKAR so I made a small stand off bracket to support one end. The bracket that supports the TV cable and accelerator cable is home made and not enough room to insert a decent spring. This is much improved.
As to the color of the car, of course I like it and I've noticed that I am certainly not the only person that likes this color combination. It really pops. There are lots of nice colors out there, but this combination speaks to me. By the way, my Corvette is red as is my new Explorer. My wife thinks I have too much red - nope. About 1/3 of my shirts in the closet are red too.
Nicely done Rich!! Congrats.
Any follow-ups?
Rich,
I've been deep into assisting a friend that has health problems. I've only got 125 miles on the new engine. Quite frankly, I"m pretty sure that I have a misfire on the engine. Not sure what it causing it. I did see a spark leak near the coil, but not sure exactly where it came from. I have some spaghetti insulation that I put over the wires from the distributor (not the spark plug wires,) but that did not seem to help although I no longer see the spark leak. I'll run the car in the garage in the dark soon and look again.
To all of my old phart good friends, if you are not taking care of yourself, eating right and doing your exercises - you better get with it. My friend is a diabetic who disregarded his Dr's instructions, did not take his meds, was lazy and pretended like all was fine, but it was not. I'll spare you the details, but his life has turned to crap all because of self-neglect.
As an old fart I couldn't agree more. Self care in most important! While not having any issues other then slightly elevated BP (140/90 down to 120s/80 with pills) I am religious about staying on top of taking them and working hard on a good diet. If I knew I was going to live this long I might have done things a little different.....no, don't think so!
Bill, sounds like you are on a good plan. My friend is now back home, but has a long way to go. He has diabetes and was not taking care of himself. Lost 1/2 of his right foot. He is a victim of self-neglect. Anyway, I'm still helping him out, but not as much as the past three weeks.
This afternoon I connected my meter to the engine and cranked it up. I was pulling spark plug wires one at a time and watching the RPM's. #1-#5 I was getting about a 40 - 50 RPM drop. On #6, no RPM drop. I pulled the plug and connected the wire and laid it on the exhaust manifold and started the engine. I could see a very strong spark, so now I am puzzled.
I still haven't tried 7 & 8, I have to put the car back on the lift to get to these plugs, my hydro-boost brake unit blocks easy access to these two plugs. I guess next is to check compression on #6.
Comments?
Rich
I previously checked the adjustment on the valve lash and all were within about .001" from the rebuilder.
Rich,
I think a compression test would be the next logical step. You will need to have all the plugs removed for the compression test, so might as well get a reading on all the cylinders while you are at it (at least, that's the way I have always done the tests, with all plugs removed and carb (or in your case, fuel injection module) blocked all the way open and then get 3 or 4 compression strokes to get the highest reading on each cylinder.
Dave
Any updates, Rich? Also, KYBlueoval has some questions about the hydoboost brake lines he'd like confirmation on. Your post above reminded me you had that system also.
Rich, I sent you a PM regarding your HydroBoost plumbing.
John
Just saw this, and apparently, our pm system is not working.
Update on the engine miss.
I'm pretty sure that I've finally got that figured out. Needless to say, it was a process.
I verified that plug wiring was correct and I have good compression. I was running out of things to check, so I finally took one of my old plugs and put it into the #6 cylinder and checked the RPM with and without a connection. Now, I've got the 40 RPM drop when I pull the plug wire. I then took the new #6 plug and put it in the #5 cylinder. Here I got about a 10 RPM drop when I pulled the plug wire. I've ordered a new Autolite 46 platinum plug and it should be here today. I've been messing with cars since I was 15 years old and I've NEVER run across a bad spark plug, but it appears that this the culprit. I previously laid the connected plug on the exhaust manifold and started the engine. I could see what I thought was a good spark, but I guess it is not good enough. I did test the resistance on the plug from #5 and it was 5,200 ohms and also tested #5, which I also took out, it was 5,600 ohms. I then tested the plugs I removed, Autolite 46 regular plugs. Resistance varied from 4,000 to about 7,000 ohms. I don't know what else I could test, the plug did not appear to have any damage or flaws.
Anyway, one new plug is a cheap fix.
I've also been helping my friend with his medical problems. Things are now much better for him and that is freeing up more time for me on my projects.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2022-08-01 09:43Just saw this, and apparently, our pm system is not working.
Hmmm, I don't know, I did reply to the PM just a few minutes ago.
Rich
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2022-08-01 09:49I've been messing with cars since I was 15 years old and I've NEVER run across a bad spark plug
I have had bad resistor plugs out of the box, but never a solid core.
Interior break, defective.