4.6 being installed now

[RICH MUISE]

Headers/exhaust manifolds...I think Claiborn used headers on his wagon install, every one else went with the Mustang Cobra oem's. Make sure they are from a dohc mustang. They have oval exahust ports...the sohc 4.6's have round ports...won't work. The GT's had sohc, cobra's had the dohc. Oddly, the passenger side cobra manifold has an oval outlet, while the driver's side has a round outlet. Go figure. The Mark engine used exhaust manifold that had the catalyctic converters welded directly to them just inches out of the engine...so no usable oval flange.  I'm hoping the muffler companies are not going to have a problem getting an oval shaped flange for the pass. side.....don't know at this point. You will have to figure a way to weld in a bung for the oxygen sensors close as posible to the engine. The Mark viii computer recognizes one on each side, so you'll need those to keep the computer from throwing codes.
In addition to the Mark viii computer, you will need the engine control module (located in the engine compartment on top of the left wheel well. You may also need whatever connectors/harness are on the mark viii engine that may not be on yours.
You may want to have a look at the Ron Francis/ Detail Zone kit. alot of info on it on their site..including being able to look at the installation manual for it to see what's involved.
www.ronfrancis.com . On the left click "detail Zone fuel injection "
One omision I noticed..gas pedal linkage. The 4.6 uses a cable linkage. I pulled the entire setup off the mark...should be an easy install.
The jury is still out on whether or not the Mark viii cooling fans are usable. Since my front clip is off, and won't go back on until the engine is in...I'm a long way off from knowing. Unless you end up buying a Mark viii donor car, I'd hold off purchasing the fans until we know what there is room for. If you're thinking about a donor carcheck out the posts I did on the auto auctions...there's one in Denver.

[RICH MUISE]

The oil pick up tube...when I found the '95 Continental oil pan on ebay, I emailed the salvage yard to see if they also had the pick up tube. They added it to the pan for 10 bucks with no extra shipping costs. Total $ for both with shipping was less than $60.

[RICH MUISE]

Some pics of mine...First off, my car is levelled side to side, but is not at ride height. As the car sits now, it is level front to back, but final ride height will have about a 2 1/2-3" rake (dropped in the front). At this point I'm making sure I have enough room to work with to end up with about a 3 degree backwards angle on the engine without modifying the floorpan/firewall. The first pic is with the engine mounts snug, and the tranny sitting on top of the tranny crossmember. The engine in this position is about 7 degrees. The next pic shows the tranny jacked up so there is about 1/2 clearance between it and the floorboards. The engine sits at 4 1/2-5 degrees, and I have at least 2 inches of space between the tranny and the crossmember. The only clearance issue at this time is that I need to get the engine back about another 1 to 1 1/2 inches, but the tranny pan is hittng the front of the crossmember. The engine as it sits now is 5" from the firewall, and I need to get it to 4". The air intake on the intake manifold extends back from the engine/bellhousing surface about 3 1/2" (I need to confirm that), so another inch back and I should be in good shape.

[RICH MUISE]

a few more. I'll need some input from the engine swap gurus, but I'm thinking of modifying the stock crossmenber rather than replacing it. My thoughts are to cut a notch into the crossmember (red lined drawing), and weld in a 1/4 x 3 x 3 or 4 angle iron with one leg sitting on top of the oem crossmember, and of course the other leg to fit inside the cutout.
Note on the pic of the tranny tailpiece housing...that bracket hanging down is for the Mark viii exhaust  support. The two studs with nuts are for the exhaust, and the two tranny mounting bolts are to the right, or front, of it. The angle iron I want to reinforce the crossmember with will sit on top of the oem tranny mounting flange, extending back another few inches with some gussets added.
Any comments on that plan??

[RICH MUISE]

Motor mounts...I discussed this once before, but I'll bring it back up. Both Canadian Ranchero and Claborn posted pics of the mounts. Both of theirs had the drivers side sitting flush and the passenger side at a slight angle. Both reported the passenger side pulled down flush when tightened. When I got my mounts, even with the plastic mock up block, I had the same thing. My thoughs were even though the passenger side would pull down...it is an aluminum block and I was worried about possibly creating too much stress on the block. Instead of just pulling it down, I opted for a spacer between the mount and the block on the top 2 bolts. The 3/16 thick washers you see in that pic (passenger side only) made the mount flush with the crossmember almost perfectly.
Any comments on my approach??
Also to remention what I had discussed in another post, the mounting studs for the two mounts are not in the same place...the passenger side is up about 3/8 (if I remember correctly) from the driver's side. That means the slot in the oem crossmember pad is in different locations side to side. It's hard to tell from the pic I took of the two mounts, but the left crossmember stud is off centered from everything..the right side is centered. This was confirmed to be correct as oem by the manufacturer of my mounts.

[RICH MUISE]

Other issues I haven't dealt with yet...I believe the oil filter plate on the Mark Viii engines has to be changed to one from a Crown Vic, and the somewhat crazy setup they have for the radiator hoses I have yet to figure out. I believe Canadian Ranchero planned on using a thermostat housing off a 4 cyl Taurus to reroute the hoses to fit the '57 oem locations on the radiator.
I sure miss Canadian Ranchero..hope he's ok. Oddly enough, I just checked his profile to see when he was last active, and it was a year ago today!!

[ROKuberski]

a few more. I'll need some input from the engine swap gurus, but I'm thinking of modifying the stock crossmenber rather than replacing it. My thoughts are to cut a notch into the crossmember (red lined drawing), and weld in a 1/4 x 3 x 3 or 4 angle iron with one leg sitting on top of the oem crossmember, and of course the other leg to fit inside the cutout.
Note on the pic of the tranny tailpiece housing...that bracket hanging down is for the Mark viii exhaust  support. The two studs with nuts are for the exhaust, and the two tranny mounting bolts are to the right, or front, of it. The angle iron I want to reinforce the crossmember with will sit on top of the oem tranny mounting flange, extending back another few inches with some gussets added.
Any comments on that plan??

Rich,

Is the cut you are showing on the cross member because of interference with the pan on the transmission?  I would be reluctant to remove that much of the cross member.  This new setup will have a huge boost in HP, I would not want to weaken this support.  Does the cross member need to move rearward?  If so, I think I have an easy solution to move it, but I think you would then have to modify the parking brake cable attachment. 

My direct email is listed under my profile.  Send me a message, I would like to talk to you.

Rich

[ROKuberski]

Headers/exhaust manifolds...I think Claiborn used headers on his wagon install, every one else went with the Mustang Cobra oem's. Make sure they are from a dohc mustang. They have oval exahust ports...the sohc 4.6's have round ports...won't work. The GT's had sohc, cobra's had the dohc. Oddly, the passenger side cobra manifold has an oval outlet, while the driver's side has a round outlet. Go figure. The Mark engine used exhaust manifold that had the catalyctic converters welded directly to them just inches out of the engine...so no usable oval flange.  I'm hoping the muffler companies are not going to have a problem getting an oval shaped flange for the pass. side.....don't know at this point. You will have to figure a way to weld in a bung for the oxygen sensors close as posible to the engine. The Mark viii computer recognizes one on each side, so you'll need those to keep the computer from throwing codes.
In addition to the Mark viii computer, you will need the engine control module (located in the engine compartment on top of the left wheel well. You may also need whatever connectors/harness are on the mark viii engine that may not be on yours.
You may want to have a look at the Ron Francis/ Detail Zone kit. alot of info on it on their site..including being able to look at the installation manual for it to see what's involved.
www.ronfrancis.com . On the left click "detail Zone fuel injection "
One omision I noticed..gas pedal linkage. The 4.6 uses a cable linkage. I pulled the entire setup off the mark...should be an easy install.
The jury is still out on whether or not the Mark viii cooling fans are usable. Since my front clip is off, and won't go back on until the engine is in...I'm a long way off from knowing. Unless you end up buying a Mark viii donor car, I'd hold off purchasing the fans until we know what there is room for. If you're thinking about a donor carcheck out the posts I did on the auto auctions...there's one in Denver.

Rich,

The gas peddle linkage is the last item on my list.  I am not considering purchasing a donor car.  My engine has a complete wiring harness that was intended to be set up as a test bed engine.  From what my friend tells me, this is a more flexible setup than a production engine. In the next few weeks, I will know more about it.

Rich

[RICH MUISE]

Rich..yes, the cutout is to clear the tranny pan so I can move it back another inch or so. The metal removed would be replaced with the 1/4 wall angle iron which should make it stronger than it is now. I was just talking about my idea with my hot rod shop buddy, and he suggests moving the crossmember back using angle stock on the frame where the oem crossmember is currently bolted on. That's a simplified explanation, but I'm guessing your idea is probably the same.
For me to send an email thru this forumn requires that I have Microsoft outlook..which I don't have  on this computer, and haven't been able to install cause the password from my internet supplier is unknown at this time. That's the kind of stuff this novice computer guy is driven nuts by.
Also, for the past 2 or 3 days my computer has been acting up..almost anything to do with yahoo wont load..including my email. Even logging on to some websites, like this one or mlb.com is taking 3 or 4 minutes. Once I get to the website it's working normally, so I don't know what the problem is.

[ROKuberski]

Rich,

Actually, my idea is even simpler and will result in a stronger attachment to the frame.  I assume the distance to moved is only a few inches.  Since the cross member is installed in a part of the frame where the side rails are not parallel, all you have to do is install a shim on each side of the cross member at the flange where it bolts to the frame.  The thickness of the shim will determine how far to the rear the cross member will be moved.  The shim will need to be at least as high as the flange on the cross member and will need to reach forward to the existing bolt holes and then go beyond the cross member to the rear for a few inches.  Weld the shim to the existing flange on the cross member.  On the forward part of the shim, drill it to match the hole layout for the existing holes, on the rear part of the shim drill at least two holes and then drill and tap the frame so you can bolt it on.  I am guessing that the shim will be in the range of about 1/2" on each side.  If you don't have a welder, you could drill holes in the shim and bolt the shim to the cross member.  Use flathead bolts and counter sink the back side of the shim so that the shim will still lay flat against the frame rails.  Lots of words to explain a simple process.  If I understand the problem, then this may be a solution.

My number is 303-422-9510, lets talk.  I am not available on Thursday's at all, I volunteer at the Colorado Railroad Museum (in the roundhouse) during the day.  I am home most evenings.

Rich

[ROKuberski]

Motor mounts...I discussed this once before, but I'll bring it back up. Both Canadian Ranchero and Claborn posted pics of the mounts. Both of theirs had the drivers side sitting flush and the passenger side at a slight angle. Both reported the passenger side pulled down flush when tightened. When I got my mounts, even with the plastic mock up block, I had the same thing. My thoughs were even though the passenger side would pull down...it is an aluminum block and I was worried about possibly creating too much stress on the block. Instead of just pulling it down, I opted for a spacer between the mount and the block on the top 2 bolts. The 3/16 thick washers you see in that pic (passenger side only) made the mount flush with the crossmember almost perfectly.
Any comments on my approach??
Also to remention what I had discussed in another post, the mounting studs for the two mounts are not in the same place...the passenger side is up about 3/8 (if I remember correctly) from the driver's side. That means the slot in the oem crossmember pad is in different locations side to side. It's hard to tell from the pic I took of the two mounts, but the left crossmember stud is off centered from everything..the right side is centered. This was confirmed to be correct as oem by the manufacturer of my mounts.

Would a washer like this work better?  It is the type used in bolting structural pieces that have tapered flanges.  They come in all different sizes.

Rich

[dgasman]

  Just thinking out loud but if you move the cross member back you may start to have problems with the park brake cables, but only if you are using the stock park brake system ?

  When I installed my AOD I to had to notch the cross member a lot . What I did was to use a piece of heavy walled tubing that I slid inside the full length of the cross member with a slight bend to follow the curve then welded it in  . Made the cross member more ridged then in stock form.

I will try to post a pic in the next day or so

[gasman826]

The cross member notch reminds me of the C6/AOD notch.  Hundreds of those have been done.  What you cut out, you must replace.  Moving the cross member rearward is a pain.

[RICH MUISE]

The notching was my original idea, and I agree it seems like the easiest to do as well as keeping the original parking brake cable system intact. I think I will go that way after getting your input...I just won't tell my buddy. LOL. I've gotten alot of valuable info from him.
The tappered washer is probably a better way to go than the flat washer...I'll keep an eye out for them...or make 'em...thanks.

[Frankenstein57]

The stock cross member is a strong piece, notch it out and weld in the plate or angle iron.