4.6 being installed now

[ROKuberski]

Al,

It's sure worth a tour and a discussion.  Thanks for the tip.  This engine will have the front sump oil pan, right?

Friday I am going to tour three Lincoln's in a junk yard in Denver just to see what I could harvest from them.  I am not going to buy anything until after I visit with you and hopefully Rich on May 4th.  By the way, what time works for you?  You are about 90 minutes from me, but maybe 6 hours from Rich.

According to my sister, you guys did not get much of the storm we had yesterday.  We had 14" of snow at my house and we have a chance for more tomorrow. 

Rich

[57dohc]

Rich,
This engine is the same one you have a line on.  I thought the transmission and wiring might be of interest to you.  I don;t know if the computer was there but quite possible.
You will need to look for a DOHC Lincoln continental for your oil pan.  Front wheel drive from about 1993 to 2001.  I'm guessing on the years but should be close. Al

[ROKuberski]

Al,

It has to be the Continental, not the Mark VIII?  The Pull and Pay salvage yard that I was going to visit has three Mark VIII's, but no Continental's.  Yes, I am very interested in your friend's drive train. 

If his stuff is not complete, or available, I would like to strip a Continental then for lots of parts.  The engine wiring and power wiring harness's are like gold from Ron Francis.  My electrical skills are a good solid okay, and, I have the service manual. I ought to be able to figure this out (I think.)  I am working on a shopping list.

Like I said, I'm not buying anything until after we meet. 

Rich

[RICH MUISE]

Rich...didn't have a chance to untarp the '94 engine and get some pics of the exhaust manifolds we were talking about..raining today. The Mk-93 is the kit I had been talking about. I'll have to check into the accesories kit you mentioned to see if I also needed that. I've got their express kit partially installed. That sounds like your looking into the overall wiring in yours to see if the oem harness is going to be overworked with the 4.6 stuff added on.
Al... a tour of your neighbor's property  sounds like another reason to get my butt up there on the 4th. The build date on the Mark viii drivetrain he has would put that in a '97 Mark...which means it is designed with the PATS system and other stuff that complicates the install. I'm not sure about the tranny though. A search on the Mark viii forumn may get some info on whether thae '97 tranny is usable on the 93-96 engines without complicating the electronic controls.

[RICH MUISE]

opps..missed your last few posts when I typed the above.
Rich, as Al said the oil pan and oil pick up tube you need has to come off a front wheel drive continental. The Marks and towncars had the rear sump, the front-wheel drive Continental is the only one that has the front sump. I think that is all you'll need from the Continental...most everything else will be from donor Mark viii's.
Any time to meet will be ok with me...I'll be driving up to the Springs the day before. I always stay at the Rainbow motel in Manitou....when I sold my house I stayed there for about 6 weeks while I was finishing up business stuff..really a cool area.
To reiterate what I mentioned in the above post..the mk-93 kit will not work with the drivetrain Al's friend has, and even if he has the computer, it will need to be reprogrammed. Just as a reference...I can pick up computers and engine control modules in this area for 20-25 bucks each.
Gonna grab a few just so I'll have some spares for years down the road.

[ROKuberski]

Rich,

Ignorance is a terrible thing, but I have a good supply.  Is the powertrain control module and the "computer" the same thing?

The powertrain control module is Ford part number 12A650, however, as far as I know, this number comes with both a prefix and a suffix.  I don't know what those numbers should be for this engine.  What does the computer do and where is it in the electrical system?

If you have access to these for the prices you mention below, and if it's convenient, throw them in and bring them along.  I will be glad to pay you for them.

Al, what time works best for you for a visit on May 4th?  Let me know, email your address and I will be there.

Rich

[RICH MUISE]

Computer and engine control module are two different things. The computer is inside, on the left side firewall up above and left of the brake pedal. The engine control module is in the engine compartment on top of the drivers side strut tower. I honestly don't know which does what. Combined, they control stuff like shift points on the tranny, fuel/air mixture, intake runners (the secondariy runners that open/close at 3,000 rpm),cooling fans,...just tons of stuff.
The marks had variable steering ratio that would adjust to different speeds keeping the car from being too touchy at high speeds, and a suspension system that would lower the car by 1 1/4 at 50 mph. The intake tubes would operate one one intake up to 3000 rpm, when it would open the second runners. All of this stuff, has to be controled by the computer or module from reading all of the sensors. The '97 and up systems also had the Passive Anti Theft system (PATS) that intergrated lots of stuff you don't want to deal with. Those cars are recognized by the door/ignition keys that have the chip built into the key.
The traction control system, btw, as I understand it, is actually a brake system function.
I will get pic posted as soon as time and weather permit. I have to figure out what I did with the engine control modul..my garage is just a mess right now.
I'll try to get over to the salvage yard and get those parts pulled before we meet...I was going to anyway. I saw them last fall just before winter set in..hopefully they're still there.

[57dohc]

Rich;
Given our never ending winter conditions, We should probably plan for the afternoon to give it a chance to warm up a bit. I know you have selected a place to stay, but you are sure welcome to stay with us.  It might help offset the cost of fuel coming up here!  I'm sure your "consulting" has to be worth some sort of offset.
My email is sparky0645@yahoo.com and cell # 719-650-3323.
If you are going to be around for a few days and are interested in fly fishing, I have plenty of extra equipment.  Spinney reservior should be open by then and fishing for large trout from shore can be exceptional.  For me cars are a hobby but fishing is more of a obsession!
Al

[Ford Blue blood]

The traction control system, btw, as I understand it, is actually a brake system function.

Yes it is, as soon as the system understands there is a loss of traction it retards the timing and modulates the brake on the spinning wheel.  It can be disabled but needs to be disabled each time the ingnition turned back on, at least my 98 LSC did that.

Bill

[RICH MUISE]

Al...."consulting",LOL, heck, I was working on my list of questions. Thanks for the offer of a place to stay, but the Manitou location is perfect for me as I'll probably do my usual...hit the Springs late afternoon, check in to my room, and head on "up the hill" to Cripple Creek until the wee hours.
My cell is 806-341-2036. I'm sure looking forward to this trip..been snowed out of my last few planned trips there. Some of my old friends from that area have passed on (one you may have heard of... Tom Dooley), and others I've just lost tract of. Trying to find them on the internet, but so far no luck. The gallery in Old Colorado City I was partners in for years closed a few years ago...they were my source of up to date info on where everyone was. Hoping to make a contact or two with them on this trip.
Rich...I ended up with an extra Mark viii shop manual. It's a '93 but most things should be relavent to about '96. I'll bring that along with me if you want it..a freebie.
Bill..that's pretty much as I thought it worked except I wasn't aware of the timing being retarded. Thanks for the info.

[ROKuberski]

Rich,

This is information given to me by the guy that has the engine.  It is in response to what type of power train control module that it requires.

"The 12A650 PCM code is common to EEC platforms from the 80?s on.  What you need is the balance of the information.  There will be a 4 digit prefix and a 3 digit suffix that looks like the following XXXX-12A650-XXX.  The engine itself is setup for a 60 pin EEC-IV so unless you change the engine loom you will need that configuration.
Another way to find the EEC-IV you need is by matching it to the engine code, 4G-814-AA.  Best bet would still be an EEC-IV from a 93-95 Mk VIII but as long as you match the engine code you will be ok."


In addition, I've been looking on the internet for info on how to decode Ford part numbers.  This is from a Mustang site, but it may be of help.  http://www.classicmustang.com/decoding_part_numbers.htm

Here is a site that sells ECU/ECM's.  http://www.ecmtogo.com/fordecmecupcm.htm

In my 1994 Mark VIII service, these terms are not used (that I can find.)    I've included a scan of a page that shows the wiring harness under the dash.  I can't find anything indicating a computer.  Item #22 looks like it could be, but that is the "Air bag diagnostic Monitor."

What have you guys paid for your front sump oil pan/oil pickup?  I've located one for $90, but don't know if that a good price or even how rare they are.

Rich

PS - I've been trying to post this message with picture since last night without luck.  I'll try it again now without the attachment.

Well, it worked, but I don't know why it does not like my attachment.  It's the right format and not too large.  Anyway, in my 1994 manual, the picture I was trying to send is on page 01-12-22.  This is the title of the page:  Instrument panel and console, disassembly and assembly, (continued) Harness Installation.

[RICH MUISE]

I'll get a pic of the computer in the '95 Mark....and the engine module. Sounds like you already have a repair manual for the Marks??
I could have picked up a pan and tube from a local yard here for 35.but that would have meant lugging jacks and tool boxes to the back side of their large lot and dealing with sticker bushes..I found one on ebay for 40 ish..about 55. with shipping if I remember correctly.
90 is too high..those cars are pretty abundant.
That Ron Francis xp-67 you mentioned is the main wiring harness that'll replace everything in your car. Not sure mine was that exact number, but it is the Express kit. I think by the time I got thru adding on extras I was a few hundred more than that though. Excellent excellent harness. Talk to me before you order this though so I can make some suggestions.

[RICH MUISE]

Finally some pics. First one is where the computer is located to the left of the brake pedal. It's behind a plastic cover and you can just see one corner of it. red x. The second is the plastic cover over the engine contol module on the drivers side strut tower. A pic of both..hopefully you can zoom in on the '94's p.n.

Edit....that last pic is incorrect. As explained in a later post, the black finned module is not the engine control module.

[RICH MUISE]

These three are of the '94's exhaust. You can see the right side looks to be the same as in the pic of your friend's. Also you can see how much further the left side sticks out. The third pic is a part you may or may not have on your friends engine..it's a tranny to bellhousing aluminum spacer about 1/8 thick. I have no idea what the reason for it is other than to fix an engineering f.u.
I didn't pull it off the engine because it appears the flexplate has to come off to remove it..but maybe not...I didn't need it, so I didn't fiddle with it too much.
Got a baseball game coming on...go Rockies!!!

[ROKuberski]

Rich,

Thanks a lot for the pictures.  I appreciate it very much.  I'll forward your picture with the added plate on the back of the engine and see if my friend knows what it is for.

As to the Rockies, you better enjoy what's going on now, who knows how long it will last.  This morning they are still in 1st place.  From last year's "worst" to current "First."  Amazing!

Rich