Looking for Frame Rebuild Advice

[SkylinerRon]

Don't know if anyone makes  those bushings in urethane.
Have heard of hard core guys burning out the rubber and replacing it with urethane.
Never cared for urethane control arm bushings myself, it is ok in sway bars but,
makes a car ride like the Deadwood stage on the street.
You will hear and feel everything through the steering especially on cars w/o a rag joint.

Goodluck,

Ron.

[KYBlueOval]

John, you are a brave man for asking this question... everybody has an opinion and you will hear a lot of em. Here is mine... stock springs in the front (since you have dropped spindles), station wagon (stock) springs in the rear. Front sway bar from Quickor Garage... it mounts like a 1959 stock bar and will not give you wheel/tire clearance issues. Rear bar from Concours Parts, it mounts above the axle. Front shocks...Bilstein, expensive but worth the money. Rear shocks...I have Gabriel Highjackers air shocks for adjusting the rake. I would use urethane bushings for the lower control arms and '58/'59 bushings for the uppers. Borgeson Power steering... (I think it is a better match for the suspension geometry than rack and pinion). Ball joints...dunno just make sure they are domestic. I might consider narrowing the rear end 1 1/2" inch for tire clearance.

In my opinion these mods will greatly improve the original performance and function without re-engineering the whole suspension. If money were no object I would buy a new custom frame from Fatman or Art Morrison. Good luck with sorting out all the advice I am sure you will get.

Les, a couple of questions about the Sway bars you recommended.
Spoke with Glen, at Quickor Garage. He makes the sway bar in a 7/8 or 1 inch diameter. He is up front in saying that the bushings for the  1 inch bar are very thin. Thin like 1/8 inch thick on the "sides walls". So which size did you use? and if it was the 1 inch, any issues with the thinner bushings?
When you say the Quickor bar....."it mounts like a '59 stock bar"......what is the difference in the way a "57 sway bar mounts vs. a stock  '59 bar, as I have no clue as to the difference?
Lastly, what are the issues, if you or anyone else on the Forum knows, with the front Sway bar from Concours Parts? From what you said about there being no  wheel / tire clearance issues with the Quickor  Garage front bar, I read between the lines that there are wheel/ tire clearance issues with the Concours Parts front bar. Is that correct, or is it some thing else?
Thanks
John

[RICH MUISE]

John...read the thread on oem wheel widths...some confirming info there relating to the sway bar clearance. My opinion..some minor issues that don't overweigh the advantages of the Concourse bar (or Quickor).
Rich

[lalessi1]

John, I bought the 1" Quickor bar. The stock '57 bar attaches to the car at the lower control arms only, it is not bolted to the frame at all. I don't believe it functions very well as an anti roll bar the way it is designed. The Concours bar and the Quickor bar both bolt to the frame and both connect to the the same spot on the lower control arm using a typical sway bar link/bushings. The Concours bar bolts to brackets that come with the kit that bolt to the bumper brackets. The bar runs outside the frame rails back to the control arms. At full lock, wheel back spacing is limited to around 3.75" as I understand it. This may vary from bar to bar. Also since rack and pinion steering reduces the turning radius this may be a moot point if you plan on using R&P. The Quickor bar mounts directly to the frame using stock brackets which must be purchased separately. It passes between the frame and the lower control arm in the stock '59 (and later) location. Wheel tire clearance is not an issue. I have not mounted mine as yet, I am swapping out my engine now and will install it once the engine is out of the car. I think the Quickor bar offers more roll resistance, more ground clearance and more wheel/tire options. It is more difficult to install but that should not be an issue on a "frame off" job.

[RICH MUISE]

Sounds to me like if one is doing a suspension rebuild, the Quickor would be the way to go. Not sure if the additional work to install one if suspension is not being disassembled otherwise is worth the effort over the Concourse/Southwest t-Bird bar.
One question I would have, however...has anyone here actually been able to test the Quickor bar, other than on paper?
On the front wheel backspacing.....Anybody see any issues with using 1/2" spacers to get the necessary clearance? I'm considering that option with the 4.25 backspacing on the 7" rim I just got. The wheel spacers are readily available in many thicknesses to resolve this apparently common issue. My studs will have to be replaced for longer ones as well.

[lalessi1]

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Concours bar. I had already purchased wheels and tires, 7" x !5", 4.25" B.S. I don't like wheel spacers, my preference is to stay as close to stock offset (particularly in the the front for proper geometry) with the widest wheel and tire that fit under the car. I also like the same wheel/tire size front and back. After looking carefully at what I have I believe 8" x 15", 4.50" B.S. would work, front and back. If I win the lotto..... On the Quickor bar the bushing is thin, the issue is the stock ('59) mounting bracket which can ditched for a newer aftermarket bracket. I will post pics and results when I get to the bar installation.

[gasman826]

I have a PST sway bar and like it.  Fits in the stock location and came with poly bushings.  I don't auto cross but corners as flat as the tires will take.

http://www.p-s-t.com/s.nl/it.A/id.3509/.f?sc=12

One might want to take a look at their ball joints.  Probably not US made but life time guarantee and priced right.

Not the best pictures of the PST sway bar...all I could find.

[thomasso]

When you get your frame cleaned up you will see that the welds look like they were done by a Hi School freshman in his first day of class.  If I were building a modified car I would grind and reweld the entire frame.  But if your staying pure stock your stuck with it, just hope it stays together.  Tom

[KYBlueOval]

When you get your frame cleaned up you will see that the welds look like they were done by a Hi School freshman in his first day of class.  If I were building a modified car I would grind and reweld the entire frame.  But if your staying pure stock your stuck with it, just hope it stays together.  Tom

Tom, this sounds like the voice of experience speaking.What did you find on your frame when it was cleaned up and bare?
Thanks
John

[lalessi1]

I haven't had tne frame off of my car but every weld I can see is almost beyond belief in terms of the dismal quality. Apparantly the frame was designed to not require quality welding, nothing has ever come apart!

[RICH MUISE]

Not very pretty welds for sure, but I seriously doubt one has ever come apart..ever.

[hiball3985]

I think the welds varied greatly depending on who did them. I've seen really crappy ones where the engine cross member attaches on some cars, my current Ranchero has really nice ones. I don't know if all the frames were all produced at one location? The welds on the two frame halves aren't continuous the full length and I have read thats the way they were intended so if a weld in one area cracked it wouldn't travel beyond that section.

[djfordmanjack]

That frame welds sure are a very interesting point. a lot of the welds look rightously dangerous and I have had broken welds on my frame too, but the Ford interlock system ties all the parts in neatly and it will hold up. I am another one, slightly modifying his 57 and I confess, that I am thinking about grinding down all the bad welds and spatters and reweld them in some areas. what is everybody else's thinking about that?
I found a lot of weld 'drag' marks on the frame parts, where no welding was done at all. to me it looks as if these were stick welded and the spark dragged from one weld to the next, without ever stopping. those weld surfaces look horrible in places. as if there were no shielding gas or protecting slag on them. Does anybody know or even have pics of how they were built in the factories?
I imagine there must have been a lot of less educated workers in the factory to build that many reasonably priced cars in short time period. I reckon most of them weren't educated welders or blacksmiths. I think these frames would be in a jig and be welded in a very very short time. guessing a person could weld 10 or more of these frames a day, the way they did them. any confirmation of how and why it was done that way would be highly appreciated.

[Limey57]

The worst welding on mine was the rear shock absorber crossmember, this was re-welded after the frame was blasted.  The rest was very hit & miss but seeing as it hadn't fell apart over the last 50+ years I decided it would hold up for a few more!

[KYBlueOval]

When you get your frame cleaned up you will see that the welds look like they were done by a Hi School freshman in his first day of class.  If I were building a modified car I would grind and reweld the entire frame.  But if your staying pure stock your stuck with it, just hope it stays together.  Tom

Tom, oh, were you dead on with your description of the welding. Yes it will be ground down and re-welded........all of it. The good news is that I had it sand blasted yesterday and there are no rust pits on this frame. None.